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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 06:09 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 12:03 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Ethel Shutta had as part of her appeal (as I gather from comments, I was not around to see her performance) being an older lady displaying a youthful energy and bright-eyed charm. I think the powers that be might have just thought that Stritch had a naturally jaded and sarcastic demeanor. I speculate that they might have just thought that Stritch performing it a la Shutta would not have been believable, and they decided on a new take. As it is, I don't think Stritch was very good casting in the role. The only part I think she would be good casting for would have been Carlotta, although even there she lacks a certain faded sexuality I think the role needs. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: larry13 08:04 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - IvyLeagueDropout 06:09 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Hasn't it been commented on(at the time? over the years?)that Stritch and Carol Burnett should have switched songs? That Stritch was the more appropriate choice for "I'm Still Here" and Burnett(especially in 1985)for "Broadway Baby?" | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:24 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 08:04 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| ***Hasn't it been commented on(at the time? over the years?)that Stritch and Carol Burnett should have switched songs? That Stritch was the more appropriate choice for "I'm Still Here" and Burnett(especially in 1985)for "Broadway Baby?"*** Further than that, I have heard it rumored that it WAS originally intended for Stritch to do "I'm Still Here" and Burnett to do "Broadway Baby," but according to that rumor, the switch was made because everyone eventually realized there was no way Stritch could sing those high notes at the end of "I'm Still Here," so she would have had to literally scream them. I have no idea if this is true, but it sure sounds plausible to me. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: larry13 12:55 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 12:24 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Very interesting, thanks. But--without taking the trouble to try to locate and listen to Stritch singing "I'm Still Here"--she DID much later sing the song and I believe on multiple occasions, including at least one major Sondheim tribute. Did she transpose down the final high notes? Or did she sing them and they were or were not so painful? Or were the powers that be just being more cautious in 1985? Or was this NOT the reason she and Burnett sang the songs they did at that concert? |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:22 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 12:55 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| ***Without taking the trouble to try to locate and listen to Stritch singing "I'm Still Here"--she DID much later sing the song and I believe on multiple occasions, including at least one major Sondheim tribute. Did she transpose down the final high notes? Or did she sing them and they were or were not so painful? Or were the powers that be just being more cautious in 1985?*** I took the trouble to re-watch and re-listen, to refresh my memory. (See link.) On this occasion, the whole song was transposed downward for Stritch, but as you can see and hear, she screams the final notes anyway. She also paraphrases and/or slightly flubs several of the lyrics towards the end. I'm guessing the powers that be felt it was okay for her to perform the song that way out of context in a tribute concert, rather than as part of a performance that was intended to result in a more or less definitive recording of the score of FOLLIES. |
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| Link | Elaine Stritch, "I'm Still Here" |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: seenenuf 09:47 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 03:22 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| she screams the final notes anyway... Horror show. She screamed everything. Not having talent. More a disquise. Indeed. She also paraphrases and/or slightly flubs several of the lyrics Unbridled Ego |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 01:33 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 12:55 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Forgive my ignorance, but did the Follies concert in 1985 not also perform the script? Was it literally just a concert of the music, and not an Encores!-esque minimalist presentation of the actual show? The reason I ask is that if the show was just music, then I can't imagine them casting anyone they didn't want singing the song the way the creative team wanted to hear it. If the concert was more than just music, then I presume they liked what the performers brought to the role overall, including but not limited to song interpretation. As for Stritch and I'm Still Here, I am fascinated by her performance of it. In At Liberty she performs it giving off a Carlotta style sense of having had a tumultuous life in and out of showbiz. At the Sondheim 80th birthday celebration (where I think she was a good 5 or more years older, and notably more frail) she sings it with a robust relief to that she's still alive and glad to be out here one more time. Honestly, her mannerisms and demeanor in the last minute of that performance are probably a lot closer to Shutta's Broadway Baby than any time Stritch ever performed that song. I'm not sure if any notes were transposed or not; Stritch kind of goes back and forth between legit singing and song-speak. And she might be the only performer I've ever heard with a song-speak belt. Kind of a hyper shout-speak. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:28 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - IvyLeagueDropout 01:33 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| "Forgive my ignorance, but did the Follies concert in 1985 not also perform the script? Was it literally just a concert of the music, and not an Encores!-esque minimalist presentation of the actual show?" I'm pretty sure there was only minimal dialogue included. "The reason I ask is that if the show was just music, then I can't imagine them casting anyone they didn't want singing the song the way the creative team wanted to hear it. If the concert was more than just music, then I presume they liked what the performers brought to the role overall, including but not limited to song interpretation." I think -- and I'm sure some people would strongly disagree with me -- that some of the roles were cast more for star quality and box-office draw than appropriateness for those roles. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:56 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 03:28 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I'm pretty sure there was only minimal dialogue included. And a lot of it reconceived/newly written for the concert. Including that whole weird last monologue by Weissman involving the reprise of "Beautiful Girls." |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:08 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Chromolume 08:56 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| ***And a lot of it reconceived/newly written for the concert. Including that whole weird last monologue by Weissman involving the reprise of "Beautiful Girls."*** Yes, thanks. I hadn't mentioned that new section, which I hate like poison. Presumably done under some terribly misguided notion that the concert needed to finish with a more substantial musical ending than the deeply sad and moving (and absolutely perfect) "Hi....girls....Ben.....Sally?" |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:27 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 09:08 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| The worst thing is that I know of at least one director that tacked that ending onto a full production of the show. Or, should I say an overstuffed production which included a number of the cut songs. Dreadful. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:52 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Chromolume 09:27 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| ***The worst thing is that I know of at least one director that tacked that ending onto a full production of the show. Or, should I say an overstuffed production which included a number of the cut songs. Dreadful.*** I hope that person is no longer working. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:08 am EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 11:52 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I don't know. This was a community theatre production back in 1991 - I can't even remember the director's name. (I was the pianist in the pit, coming in at the last minute to fill in.) | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: pecansforall 03:54 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 03:28 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I don't why but I seem to recall that the show wasn't originally envisioned as the huge and legendary event that it became. Over time, as casting began to fall into place the already excited word-of-mouth became more and more rabid. And then I think an album deal was made. And then the PBS deal was made. In the documentary Carol Burnett says something like they all thought it was going to be an easy gig but then they realized/learned that everything was going to be documented and recorded. I could be wrong. But there is no question that this is one of the most legendary events in Broadway history. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: larry13 04:17 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - pecansforall 03:54 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Burnett herself has also told the story that she originally thought it was just going to be a recording and that not until her friend Beverly Sills told her she was "coming to see it" did she realize that it was going to be a concert event. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:11 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 04:17 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| ***Burnett herself has also told the story that she originally thought it was just going to be a recording and that not until her friend Beverly Sills told her she was "coming to see it" did she realize that it was going to be a concert event.*** I have heard/read that before, and I still don't understand how such a misunderstanding could have been remotely possible. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: pecansforall 04:23 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 04:17 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Ah! Thanks for the clarification on what Burnett said. You are correct. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 11:28 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 08:04 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I'd never heard that, but it would seem better casting. Of course, 1-off concert productions I guess will always run the risk of having people cast in them (or in roles) that would not necessarily work in a traditional production. Patinkin comes to mind. Certainly way too young. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 02:28 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - IvyLeagueDropout 11:28 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| In the latest biography of Stritch (I’M STILL HERE by Alexandra Jacobs, 2018), she says Stritch was indeed offered “I’m Still Here” first, but she turned it down, saying you had to “be Yvonne de Carlo or eighty.” She was in a panic state during the performance, according to Mandy Patinkin, and everyone, including Paul Gemignani, was startled when she began singing as though the words were coming out one at at time. “That was not the tempo we used in rehearsals,” he said, and adapted the orchestra to her pacing. I’m paraphrasing; the book is upstairs and my foot hurts. I’ll post a citation later. Laura |
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| Stritch in rehearsal | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:03 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - showtunetrivia 02:28 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| That is indeed what Gemignani is quoted saying. At the link, there is an excerpt from the Follies in Concert documentary showing us Stritch in rehearsal. A bit further is the the beginning of "Broadway Baby" at the opening-night performance. She certainly is not doing it quickly in the rehearsal clip, although admittedly she is simply trying to get the notes. Still, I would bet that she never did it in rehearsal faster than the basic tempo we hear there. If she went perhaps a bit slower still in performance, given the audience response, how could she not? |
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| Link | Stritch in rehearsal and performance |
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| re: Stritch in rehearsal | |
| Posted by: pecansforall 09:12 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: Stritch in rehearsal - AlanScott 07:03 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Look at this clip of Stritch ending "Broadway Baby". Is that Sondheim in the background doing a facepalm or someone else? | |
| Link | Broadway Baby |
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| re: Stritch in rehearsal | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 10:14 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Stritch in rehearsal - pecansforall 09:12 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| LOL. I had watched that but didn't take note of Sondheim back there. I'm not sure he was thinking, "Oh, God! Is she going to do it that way?" but perhaps he was. I suppose he might also be hating that ending, which I think was put in because there was no way those people were going to learn the counterpoint ending in the little rehearsal time they had. Oddly, on the second night, it was Montevecchi who had trouble staying in sync with the orchestra even though she had been a ballet dancer and you would think she therefore had a good sense of rhythm. Maybe she just had trouble hearing them. | |
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