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Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Last Edit: mikem 11:25 am EDT 04/10/21
Posted by: mikem 11:22 am EDT 04/10/21

Lincoln Center's free stream of "Vanya and Sonia and Masha and Spike" ends tomorrow, and I finally saw it yesterday. I loved the show with its original cast, but I think the material's a bit tricky to pull off successfully. I saw a local production that was okay, but just kind of lay there.

I agree with a prior commenter who said he loved the show live but only liked the streaming version. Although the cast had already done the show at the McCarter Theater in Princeton for 5 or 6 weeks, this was filmed in the first week of NYC previews, and the performances are not yet modulated to perfection. The audience is also dead, which doesn't help.

Kristine Nielsen in particular hasn't found all the nuances for her character. The Phone Call is more matter-of-fact here than it became, but a lot of the impact of the Phone Call scene comes from watching the prior 90 minutes of the play and the audience really understanding the character and why this phone call is so important. The first time I saw the show was about 2 months after this was filmed, and the Phone Call scene was a masterpiece -- funny, touching, and heartbreaking. I saw the show 3 times in NYC, and each time, there was a significant audible audience reaction when Nielsen first turns down the date. The first time, an audience member said regretfully, "oh no..." into the silence, and I remember thinking, "I feel exactly the same way." You're not surprised she turns down the date, but you really, really wish she would reach out and take a chance on life. In the streaming version, there is no audience reaction at all, partially because the audience is dead, but also because the fine-tuning that would elevate the production from a B+ to an A hasn't happened yet. But I guess that's what previews are for!

The stream is still worth watching. It's a very good version of the play. But those who are wondering what the fuss is about may still be wondering afterwards.
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re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Posted by: PlazaBoy 02:06 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - mikem 11:22 am EDT 04/10/21

I was happy to view the stream, but I was surprised the play felt underwhelming to me.

I imagine seeing it person, the charm of the performances would have satisfied me, but I'd still feel the play was thin.

David Hyde Pierce's big second act speech , while well acted, expressed sentiments that I feel I've heard many times. Nothing new or insightful there for me.

I didn't care for Weaver at all. I certainly agree the audience was less than enthusiastic. It was very noticeable.
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re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Posted by: Beevo_bway 08:38 am EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - mikem 11:22 am EDT 04/10/21

Having never seen a production I was excited to watch the stream. I only watched Act 1. I've never been a fan of Weaver and this certainly didn't make me one. I had no interest in returning for Act 2.
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re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Posted by: writerkev 08:40 am EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - Beevo_bway 08:38 am EDT 04/11/21

I saw it on Broadway, haven’t seen the streaming version. I thought Sigourney Weaver was straight-up embarrassing. Like a high-school actress’s idea of how you play a movie star.
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It’s a broad comedy.
Posted by: KingSpeed 01:25 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - writerkev 08:40 am EDT 04/11/21

I thought she was great and very funny.
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re: It’s a broad comedy.
Posted by: Billhaven 01:39 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: It’s a broad comedy. - KingSpeed 01:25 pm EDT 04/11/21

I'm with you. I also have fond memories of her hilarious portrayal of a little seen A.R. Gurney play called Mrs. Farnsworth opposite John Lithgow (equally hysterical). It played at the Flea Theatre (and co-starred Danny Burstein, great, as always).
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re: It’s a broad comedy.
Posted by: KingSpeed 10:01 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: It’s a broad comedy. - Billhaven 01:39 pm EDT 04/11/21

Burstein was great at The Flea
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re: It’s a broad comedy.
Last Edit: singleticket 02:12 pm EDT 04/11/21
Posted by: singleticket 02:08 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: It’s a broad comedy. - Billhaven 01:39 pm EDT 04/11/21

I saw it on Broadway in the second or third row and remember it feeling a bit like a Punch and Judy show because the characters were so broad. But at the same time the characters were trapped in different existential dilemmas. The Chekhov layering was suggestive but not insistent. I remember I ended up enjoying the whole thing very much and thinking the silliness and melancholy were balanced in a satisfying way.
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I should mention at this point that I thought Sigourney Weaver gave a wonderful, perfectly gauged, heartfelt performance in THE GUYS....
Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:00 am EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - writerkev 08:40 am EDT 04/11/21

....and, for that matter, her performance did not seem to be the problem in SEX AND LONGING. So, to to this day, I can't explain what happened with VANYA AND SONIA.
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Did anyone see Sean Young play the role?
Last Edit: PlayWiz 12:06 pm EDT 04/11/21
Posted by: PlayWiz 12:05 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: I should mention at this point that I thought Sigourney Weaver gave a wonderful, perfectly gauged, heartfelt performance in THE GUYS.... - Michael_Portantiere 10:00 am EDT 04/11/21

I think she played Masha out on Long Island (perhaps Sag Harbor?). I always liked her as an actress, and she was very good in some comedies. I have a feeling she'd have been excellent as Masha, especially as someone who lived through all the highs and lows of being a movie star.
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re: Did anyone see Sean Young play the role?
Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:29 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: Did anyone see Sean Young play the role? - PlayWiz 12:05 pm EDT 04/11/21

YES, I saw that production with Sean Young as Masha, at the Engeman in Northport, and I thought she gave an excellent performance. I also liked the overall production better than The New York Times reviewer (see link).
Link VANYA AND SONIA review
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re: I should mention at this point that I thought Sigourney Weaver gave a wonderful, perfectly gauged, heartfelt performance in THE GUYS....
Last Edit: mikem 11:51 am EDT 04/11/21
Posted by: mikem 11:46 am EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: I should mention at this point that I thought Sigourney Weaver gave a wonderful, perfectly gauged, heartfelt performance in THE GUYS.... - Michael_Portantiere 10:00 am EDT 04/11/21

I think part of the issue with Weaver here is that her acting choices clash with those of the rest of the cast. Masha lives in a world of her own that doesn't always have much resemblance to the real world. Her comments about her acting abilities or her resume are what she wishes were the truth. She is always playing to an audience, but it's not clear how much she truly believes what she is saying. Despite her words, that she is so threatened by Nina means that she knows on some level that Spike is not truly interested in her. Weaver says many of her lines in a semi-artificial way that kind of highlights this, but the other characters are all at least somewhat grounded in reality, and no one else is doing this. So Weaver really sticks out as sounding phony to me.

Also, Weaver's long history with Durang may mean that she's highlighting the artificial/surreal aspect of his characters, but she's the only one doing it.
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re: I should mention at this point that I thought Sigourney Weaver gave a wonderful, perfectly gauged, heartfelt performance in THE GUYS....
Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:18 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: I should mention at this point that I thought Sigourney Weaver gave a wonderful, perfectly gauged, heartfelt performance in THE GUYS.... - mikem 11:46 am EDT 04/11/21

***I think part of the issue with Weaver here is that her acting choices clash with those of the rest of the cast. Masha lives in a world of her own that doesn't always have much resemblance to the real world. Her comments about her acting abilities or her resume are what she wishes were the truth. She is always playing to an audience, but it's not clear how much she truly believes what she is saying. Despite her words, that she is so threatened by Nina means that she knows on some level that Spike is not truly interested in her. Weaver says many of her lines in a semi-artificial way that kind of highlights this, but the other characters are all at least somewhat grounded in reality, and no one else is doing this. So Weaver really sticks out as sounding phony to me. Also, Weaver's long history with Durang may mean that she's highlighting the artificial/surreal aspect of his characters, but she's the only one doing it.***

I think you're absolutely right about this, but the issue is that many people seem to feel Weaver wasn't able to properly calibrate her performance to play Masha in a way that communicated what the character was supposed to be while also meshing with the style of performances beginning given by the other actors. Yes, Masha is written as a very different kind of person from Vanya and Sonia, but I don't think it's supposed to come across as if she's in a different play. I've always thought of Nicholas Martin as a wonderfully talented director, but maybe he bore some responsibility for Weaver's misguided performance. Or, who knows, maybe she was a big enough name and had such a long history with Durang that Martin felt he should just leave her on her own.
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re: I should mention at this point that I thought Sigourney Weaver gave a wonderful, perfectly gauged, heartfelt performance in THE GUYS....
Posted by: mikem 02:37 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: I should mention at this point that I thought Sigourney Weaver gave a wonderful, perfectly gauged, heartfelt performance in THE GUYS.... - Michael_Portantiere 12:18 pm EDT 04/11/21

I agree that Weaver seemed to be acting in a totally different play from everyone else. I also agree with you that Martin was a very talented director, and I speculate that your second hypothesis may be correct: Weaver was a big star and a box office draw, and the playwright was happy with what she was doing, so Martin let her do it in a certain way. When Julie White took over, her interpretation was much more integrated with that of the rest of the cast, so I don't think that Martin necessarily felt that Weaver's choices were the "correct" ones.

For myself, whatever Weaver was trying to do didn't work, whether the issue was the concept or the execution.
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Wasn't Sigourney Weaver's performance intentional and given Durang's imprimatur?
Posted by: portenopete 12:07 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: I should mention at this point that I thought Sigourney Weaver gave a wonderful, perfectly gauged, heartfelt performance in THE GUYS.... - mikem 11:46 am EDT 04/11/21

Is the other poster suggesting that Sigourney Weaver THOUGHT she was giving a naturalistic, verisimilitudinous account of a real actor of a certain age and was embarrassingly unaware of the results seen from the stalls? As I read (all) and saw (a few productions) of Durang's one-acts written in the 1970's and '80's, the impression they left on me was that everyone in his world was living in a madhouse and infected with a warped sense of behaviour cobbled together from excessive exposure to modern popular cultural (high and low). As I recall his one-acts rarely had a "normal" character ( a Marilyn Munster type) through whom the audience was meant to interpret the play. EVERYONE was nuts and the fun of the plays was to revel and bask in their collective lunacy.

V&S&M&S is admittedly a different beast. A generally formulaic and simple family comedy in two acts and over 2.5 hours in which we get the hint that we should invest in an emotional attachment to the titular siblings (if not the fourth arriviste "other"). Except I don't think that he has successfully found a way to blend that rather run-of-the-mill knock-off of Chekhovian family dramedy with his innate, three decades-old anarchic and antic humour. Because Weaver worked so closely with him in their professional adolescence, her rhythms seem perfectly attuned to his early work and I can only think he wanted that voice in this new piece.

I would hardly call Kristine Nielson's performance- or her work in general- "naturalistic". She is forever gazing out at the audience with her wide, stunned mullet expression, to my mind reminding us that what she just said or is just about to say was funny.

If there was one performance that seemed of a piece with the play it was DHP (or in my experience in L.A., Mark Blum)'s performance as Vanya. Maybe by necessity he was quiet, reserved and deeply felt. (I do think that being a middle-aged man, it's easy to view the play through his lens and in a way it could just as easily be called VANYA AND HIS SISTERS. (Perhaps this was a title considered but the proximity to Woody Allen seemed unwise?)
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re: Wasn't Sigourney Weaver's performance intentional and given Durang's imprimatur?
Posted by: writerkev 03:11 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: Wasn't Sigourney Weaver's performance intentional and given Durang's imprimatur? - portenopete 12:07 pm EDT 04/11/21

I don’t think anyone is suggesting they expected or wanted a realistic portrayal. As you suggest, Nielsen was offering a highly exaggerated portrait in the Durang style. Weaver was—again, my opinion—hopelessly amateurish. It’s not about degree of naturalism.
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re: Wasn't Sigourney Weaver's performance intentional and given Durang's imprimatur?
Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:43 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: Wasn't Sigourney Weaver's performance intentional and given Durang's imprimatur? - portenopete 12:07 pm EDT 04/11/21

***Is the other poster suggesting that Sigourney Weaver THOUGHT she was giving a naturalistic, verisimilitudinous account of a real actor of a certain age and was embarrassingly unaware of the results seen from the stalls?***

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I certainly did not mean to, and I think/hope I was clear about that.

Regarding your comments about Nielsen, no, I don't think anyone would describe her performance as "naturalistic," but in my opinion, her style of acting worked beautifully in this play. Same for David Hyde Pierce -- and, I'm sure, Mark Blum -- in a VERY different role. That character is meant to be quiet, reserved, and deeply felt, as you said -- also, not quirky at all. So any comparison of the actors who performed that role with Nielsen seems rather pointless to me.
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re: Wasn't Sigourney Weaver's performance intentional and given Durang's imprimatur?
Posted by: portenopete 04:31 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: Wasn't Sigourney Weaver's performance intentional and given Durang's imprimatur? - Michael_Portantiere 12:43 pm EDT 04/11/21

Fair enough. To my surprise I seem to be painting myself into the corner of being a huge Sigourney Weaver fan, which I'd never really considered myself. Although it's not so much that I LOVED her as much as I thought she didn't stick out unfavourably the way most people here seem to feel. I'll stick to my guns, such as they are, and remember her Masha fondly!

Looking forward to the day when we can have these conversations about new productions!
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re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:29 am EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - mikem 11:22 am EDT 04/10/21

"I agree with a prior commenter who said he loved the show live but only liked the streaming version. Although the cast had already done the show at the McCarter Theater in Princeton for 5 or 6 weeks, this was filmed in the first week of NYC previews, and the performances are not yet modulated to perfection. The audience is also dead, which doesn't help."

And I agree with you, although my sense was that the issue was more the second thing (a dead-ish audience) than the first. Of course, one feeds upon the other, so it's hard to tell for sure.
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re: audience- this performance was just after Hurricane Sandy. I wonder how full it actually was
Posted by: Esther 09:46 am EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - Michael_Portantiere 11:29 am EDT 04/10/21

I was supposed to attend this particular preview, but I was stuck in NE Queens with no power and no way to get into Manhattan thanks to Hurricane Sandy a few days prior.

Ended up seeing it about a month later with a rather lively , appreciative audience
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re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Posted by: NewsGuy 12:50 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - Michael_Portantiere 11:29 am EDT 04/10/21

I would presume a lot of background/audience noise was eliminated from the production.

Having been an audience member for a limitless number of concerts recorded for video or audio recordings, the end result is far far far far different than the actual experience as an audience member. The sound is usually taken from the soundboard feed, because there was often so much screaming and singing along that the artist would have never been able to have been heard singing their own song at all. Stevie Nicks singing "Landslide" in the 24 Karat Gold Concert, Madonna singing "Holiday" in her hometown of Detroit on the Drowned World Tour, and Cher singing "Believe" on her recorded tours instantly come to mind, followed by many, many others.
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re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Posted by: mikem 11:43 am EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - Michael_Portantiere 11:29 am EDT 04/10/21

There are few things better than when the audience for a comedy and the actors are in sync and feeding their energy to each other back and forth in an upward spiral, and the show just gets better and better and better.

And the opposite is awful, where the audience is completely dead, and the actors sometimes either overcompensate or kind of give up.

There were several times during this streaming version where I was thinking, "C'mon, that was funny! Why is no one laughing?" That must be really frustrating for the cast.
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re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:17 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - mikem 11:43 am EDT 04/10/21

***There were several times during this streaming version where I was thinking, "C'mon, that was funny! Why is no one laughing?" That must be really frustrating for the cast.***

I had the same reaction. I suspected we were in a bit of trouble about five minutes into the show, when Sonia smashes that first coffee cup and there was almost no laughter. Whether that was the audience's "fault," or whether Christine's timing and/or acting were a bit off, I can't say for sure.
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If it's funny to me, I'll laugh.
Posted by: portenopete 01:48 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - Michael_Portantiere 12:17 pm EDT 04/10/21

I saw V&S&M&S at the Mark Taper (same production with Nielsen and "Cassandra" recreating their roles) and then I did the show (as V) and then I watched the LCT stream.

Ultimately I don't think it is a great play and not even top-drawer Durang. I think it emerged as a success in a very weak season and appealed to the snobbishness that V&S&M's parents suffered from in naming their children: it flattered the egos of theatregoers who "got" the references and that was seemingly enough.

But that's just me. When I'm watching a show I will laugh regardless of what the people around me are doing and conversely, all the guffawing in the world won't seduce me into joining in. The coffee cup throw didn't work in any of the versions I was present for. nor did the Cassandra histrionics. The only consistently successful moments were the Maggie Smith impression, the big V speech in Act II and anytime Spike took his kit off!
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I Have to Agree With You
Posted by: Jax 04:01 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh. - portenopete 01:48 pm EDT 04/10/21

"Ultimately I don't think it is a great play and not even top-drawer Durang. I think it emerged as a success in a very weak season and appealed to the snobbishness that V&S&M's parents suffered from in naming their children: it flattered the egos of theatregoers who "got" the references and that was seemingly enough."

Durang partisans like Ben Brantley wet themselves over this after ages of dissing the bourgeois Neil Simon. Yet what did V&S use for its first act curtain? Neil Simon's "California Suite" scene w. Maggie Smith....almost word for word. Come the second act curtain, for a moving moment, they just put the Beatles "Here Comes the Sun" on the loudspeaker. Hard to go wrong with that. Durang was a very clever sketch writer. Never much of a playwright.
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re: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh.
Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:36 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh. - portenopete 01:48 pm EDT 04/10/21

"Ultimately I don't think it is a great play and not even top-drawer Durang. I think it emerged as a success in a very weak season and appealed to the snobbishness that V&S&M's parents suffered from in naming their children: it flattered the egos of theatregoers who "got" the references and that was seemingly enough. "

I might agree with your first sentence, but I think the rest of your comment is unfair. I really don't think much or maybe even any of the humor in the play relies on the audience "getting the references." In fact, as I recall, most if not all of the references are explained in the text; I specifically remember that the Cassandra reference is fully explained.
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re: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh.
Posted by: MRH 02:52 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh. - portenopete 01:48 pm EDT 04/10/21

It's not just you. I agree with EVERY word; and it seemingly happens a lot (at least to me)
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re: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh.
Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 02:48 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh. - portenopete 01:48 pm EDT 04/10/21

Based on my live viewing of the show, I agree with you about the Cassandra histrionics. But when I saw it, as I recall, the throwing and smashing of the first coffee cup got a pretty big, shocked laugh, and the throwing and smashing of the second one an even bigger laugh.
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re: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh.
Posted by: portenopete 05:25 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: re: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh. - Michael_Portantiere 02:48 pm EDT 04/10/21

I'll grant you that the LCT archival response was weaker than the Taper version or for the one I did. I can definitely imagine it would have gotten a bigger reaction than....nothing (IIRC).

In Los Angeles the late and lovely Mark Blum was DHP's equal, I thought. And David Hull was a very sexy and funny Spike.

I seem to be in the minority that liked Weaver, but having read all the Durang one-acts in my youth with her voice in my head (knowing she'd come up with him), I think of her as the supreme Durang interpreter. I have always thought her vague and airy line readings highlighted the lunacy and amoral utterances of his characters.

And as you (or another in this thread) said, I think he is best lauded as a sketch writer. And that is meant to be a major complement.
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re: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh.
Posted by: mikem 11:53 am EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh. - portenopete 05:25 pm EDT 04/10/21

I would agree that there is some inconsistency to the characterizations from scene to scene. The Sonia smashing cups over nothing in the first scene has little resemblance to the Sonia we see later in the show.
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re: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh.
Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 02:56 pm EDT 04/11/21
In reply to: re: If it's funny to me, I'll laugh. - mikem 11:53 am EDT 04/11/21

"The Sonia smashing cups over nothing in the first scene has little resemblance to the Sonia we see later in the show."

Interesting, I never thought of it that way. My take is that Sonia has a lot of anger in her, much of it in regard to Masha, but also in regard to other aspects of her (Sonia's) life. At the beginning of the play, that anger comes out in the form of her smashing coffee cups, later she expresses some of her anger verbally, and eventually I think her anger begins to fade when she very unexpectedly meets a man who's interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with her, and also when it turns out that the house will not be sold out from under her and her brother.
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re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Posted by: mikem 12:36 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - Michael_Portantiere 12:17 pm EDT 04/10/21

The smashing of the coffee cup was my "uh oh" moment as well. I wonder if the LCT preview audience is not a good fit for this kind of show. I saw Happiness at its first preview, but I don't think I've ever seen a comedy at LCT early in previews.
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re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Posted by: duckylittledictum 02:00 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - mikem 12:36 pm EDT 04/10/21

I also noticed that there was very little response to Vanya's tirade/aria in Act 2. When I saw it in its LCT run, there was a huge explosion of applause. In the video, it was quite more polite.

That being said, I wondered what I had liked about the play in the first place. The Cassandra character in particular seemed worse than ever and felt drafted from another play. Totally forgot it had won a Best Play Tony.
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re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers)
Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 02:53 pm EDT 04/10/21
In reply to: re: Vanya and Sonia and the benefit of the actors fully settling into the show (major spoilers) - duckylittledictum 02:00 pm EDT 04/10/21

"That being said, I wondered what I had liked about the play in the first place."

Which only goes to show how much the response of the rest of the audience can affect our own feelings about a play, even if sometimes we don't like to admit that.

"The Cassandra character in particular seemed worse than ever and felt drafted from another play. "

Yes, and sorry to say, I only really understood about half of the lines spoken by that actor. Which was also the case when I saw the show live.
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