Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: Maybe deservedly so? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:05 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: Maybe deservedly so? - portenopete 11:47 am EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| "But until there are serious and credible reports of physical . . . assault" There are, which kinda takes the wind out of your sails. We don't let criminals do lots of things that would make the (theatre) world better. We didn't let Drabinsky (another producer who did some great things amidst his criminality) and we should not let Rudin. The difference is that there has not been a Mike Ovitz to face Rudin. |
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| re: Maybe deservedly so? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 12:13 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Maybe deservedly so? - ryhog 12:05 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| As I have read the accounts- not forensically, I admit- wasn't the "physical assault" the result of Rudin throwing something and it inadvertently breaking and hitting somebody? Not nothing and perfectly subject to whatever laws he broke. But not the same as him jumping on someone and beating them with a hammer. |
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| re: Maybe deservedly so? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:21 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Maybe deservedly so? - portenopete 12:13 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| ***As I have read the accounts- not forensically, I admit- wasn't the "physical assault" the result of Rudin throwing something and it inadvertently breaking and hitting somebody?**** According to the story in the Hollywood Reporter, that is totally incorrect in at least one very notable, alleged case. Perhaps you might want to re-read that article -- or read it for the first time, if you haven't -- before commenting further. |
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| Hey! I just read the article in full! | |
| Posted by: portenopete 03:54 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Maybe deservedly so? - Michael_Portantiere 12:21 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| And I kinda feel the same way. Yelling at people, forcing them to work ungodly hours, humiliating them. It's awful behaviour that deserves to be known and- as the article points out repeatedly- HAS been known in the industry and beyond for years. Any 20something coming out of NYU or UCLA should be forewarned and forearmed if they accept a gig in his office. Just the way I imagine anyone was who went to work for David Merrick fifty years ago, or Jed Harris before that. Ultimately he is being judged by the court of public opinion for his work, both for its quality and for its profitability. He is almost inevitably associated with top-drawer art and has good taste in assembling creative teams. That should in no way stand in the way when he has broken a law and if charges are laid and stick and he goes to trial, I'd shed no tears for him (although I'd mourn the quality projects he ushered to the stage and screen). I felt the same way about Garth Drabinsky twenty-five years ago. In my opinion, the assistant who was fired was not fired "because of her diabetes" and her assertion that she could have "100 percent sued him" sounds like a child and that kind of overly-dramatic claim only lessens her position of strength. But to me this article reeks of a trade publication angling for national prominence in the Ronan Farrow/Kantor & Twohey vein, hoping to vault Ms Siegel into that class of ubiquitous cultural commentators who are perennial pundits on CNN and MSNBC or the subjects of vilification on Fox. But the good that can come out of it is to reinforce for all but the hardiest souls that perhaps Mr. Rudin is not the wisest person to hang your hat on career-wise and to scale back your desire to be at the pinnacle of power. Because anyone who wants to work for him that much must have a real taste for it. |
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| re: Hey! I just read the article in full! | |
| Posted by: ryhog 04:08 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: Hey! I just read the article in full! - portenopete 03:54 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| I would say that the good that can come out of this is a set of laws (the most recent amendments being a good start) that don't make someone choose between their aspirations and conduct like that described here. | |
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| re: Hey! I just read the article in full! | |
| Posted by: portenopete 04:26 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hey! I just read the article in full! - ryhog 04:08 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| I totally agree with you but I still have a nagging worry that the decline and disappearance of those awful, hurtful people is not making the theatre a better place for the audiences. I have LOVED the work of- for instance- Rachel Chavkin and Tommy Kail and understand them to be nothing but upstanding people in life as well as superior artists. I just prefer a theatre community where there is a variety of types running things and I can make my own choices about whom to work with and whether or not to wear protective gear when I come to work. And if the work of the monstres sacrés finally has no audience it will bite the dust and it will be an inevitable bit of evolution. | |
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| re: Hey! I just read the article in full! | |
| Posted by: ryhog 04:44 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hey! I just read the article in full! - portenopete 04:26 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| I think we can facilitate that evolution just as we have passed laws against various forms of discrimination, for instance. One thing I am pretty sure I know about Rudin: if the choice were between producing theatre (or movies) that bring him accolades and awards and perpetuating his pathological misconduct, I think he will find a way to chart the former course, even if it costs him tons in therapy fees. | |
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| re: Hey! I just read the article in full! | |
| Posted by: larry13 04:31 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hey! I just read the article in full! - portenopete 04:26 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| Who's talking about whether "the decline and disappearance of those awful, hurtful people is" or is "not making the theatre a better place for the audiences?" You or anyone else in the AUDIENCE? It's the people who are working with these ogres who deserve decent working conditions. | |
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| re: Maybe deservedly so? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 12:28 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Maybe deservedly so? - Michael_Portantiere 12:21 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| I will. Thanks! | |
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| re: Maybe deservedly so? | |
| Posted by: dramedy 12:11 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Maybe deservedly so? - ryhog 12:05 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| Being sent to the hospital is enough proof for physical abuse. And consistently yelling at employees is actionable abuse. The example of dismissing a suggestion does not rise to actionable abuse. What rudin is accused of doing is. | |
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| Except... | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 12:10 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Maybe deservedly so? - ryhog 12:05 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| ... it seems like those assaulted have been happy to take the cash rather than filing charges. According to the HR story: "The wounded assistant headed to the emergency room, and Rudin called his lawyer..." | |
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| That's not an "except." It's what I said. nm | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:55 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: Except... - MockingbirdGirl 12:10 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| The voices in your head don't count (nm) | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 01:12 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: That's not an "except." It's what I said. nm - ryhog 12:55 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| ;) | |
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| And what point are you making? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 02:46 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: The voices in your head don't count (nm) - MockingbirdGirl 01:12 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| It's okay to assault your assistant as long as they get a good pay out? Not really following your line of argument, and also surprised that you didn't call straw man, since this actually IS a straw man argument. smh |
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| re: And what point are you making? | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 03:30 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 03:29 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: And what point are you making? - Singapore/Fling 02:46 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| The point I'm making is that while there are indeed "serious and credible" accounts of assault, someone has to actually be willing to press charges against him instead of being buyed off. Not sure why you believe that's a 'straw man' argument in the slightest. It seems to be exactly what's been happening. |
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| re: And what point are you making? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:10 am EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: And what point are you making? - MockingbirdGirl 03:29 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| Ok, cool, that got lost in translation. And the OP of this thread was the straw man argument, and even continued insisting no abuse had happened *after reading about the computer smashing*. Just surprised you didn't call that out. |
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| That isn’t any different than sexual abuse | |
| Posted by: dramedy 12:13 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: Except... - MockingbirdGirl 12:10 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| Pay off the victim to not cooperate with the investigation. | |
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