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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:12 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - AlanScott 03:15 am EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| I see your point, but is that section of the score really THAT difficult? This is an honest question, as I'm only going by what I hear on the recordings that do include that section, and I haven't seen how it's written out. At any rate, it has always seemed ironic to me that, since the primary, original motivation for the NY Philharmonic FOLLIES was to arrive at a complete recorded performance of the score, those involved were apparently so willing to change or cut sections of the score with the justification that "we won't have time to rehearse that properly." This would include the elimination of the mashup we're discussing here, the performance of "The God-Why-Don't-You-Love-Me Blues" as a solo for Buddy (!!!) rather than including the two women, and even something so simple as having Arthur Rubin sing the "Careful, here's the home of...." verse of "Beautiful Girls" as a solo, rather than have the full company sing it as written. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 10:24 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 01:12 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| I think it is difficult. It was also not used in the Roundabout production, and I know of other productions haven't used it because they ran out of time for the people to learn it. The three songs were not written to be sung together, and they don't fit together especially well. In 1985, there weren't commercial recordings of the section that might have helped the performers. In the score, the time signature switches from 4/4 to 2/4, which I think is a not big thing. I think the main things to remember about that section in relation to the concert is (a) there was very little rehearsal time, and (b) they couldn't see the conductor. In Everything Was Possible, Chapin writes that at the first preview in Boston "putting the three numbers together in the Montage seemed shaky." Those people had had weeks of rehearsal, and they had a conductor they could see. And that was after two dress rehearsals on the day before the first preview, and one in the afternoon on the day of the first preview. So with very little rehearsal, and all the other factors, to which I would add how long had it been since Comden and Green had sung in public with an orchestra, I think it would have been foolhardy to try it. As I said, the night I was there, Montevecchi had trouble staying with the orchestra. And on the first night, Patinkin stopped "The Right Girl" and started over. And he was young. I think the whole thing was very difficult. More rehearsal was needed. I don't know that lack of rehearsal time was the reason for all the things you mention, but I do think it was probably at least part of the reason for not doing the counterpoint at the end of what the score calls the "Montage." I was certainly hugely disappointed by how much of the score was not played and how many changes were made. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:04 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - AlanScott 10:24 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| Thanks. I think you're right about all of this, and your point that the performers in the NY Phil concert could not see the conductor is especially well taken. I am a little surprised that, having decided to have the montage, Sondheim didn't take care to make it not especially difficult to sing. And, like you, I wouldn't think the switch of time signature from 4/4 to 2/4 would be that big a deal. But whatever :-) |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 01:36 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 01:04 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
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| At this time, virtually the entire "Follies" section had yet to be written. He had a lot else on his mind. According to Chapin, it was Hal Hastings who put together the counterpoint section, which is par for the course. People are sometimes surprised by how much Sondheim — not just Sondheim, of course, among Broadway composers — gives over to the musical director, orchestrator, dance arranger and sometimes others who, if I can trust what I have heard, Sondheim doesn't even know did the work to put together some important musical material. I didn't even know till relatively recently — perhaps not until Everything Was Possible, although I think I did know this a bit before then — that "One More Kiss" was written as a solo. It wasn't till rehearsals that they decided to make it a duet, taking advantage of Victoria Mallory having been hired and having little to do, with the small role she had been partly hired for gradually disappearing. When it was decided, Hastings was the one who made it into a duet. I can remember years ago mentioning here that Sondheim rarely has done the vocal arrangements, and being challenged by someone who just could not believe that he wouldn't have. I had quotes from both Gemignani and Sondheim himself about this. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: larry13 04:38 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - AlanScott 01:36 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
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| Very informative, as always, thanks. This sent me back to FINISHING THE HAT where I was surprised to find that Sondheim writes a very long note to the reader after the lyrics for "One More Kiss," beginning "This was the first song I wrote for FOLLIES" but never saying anything about it being originally a solo. This is not at all to state that I doubt the veracity of what you've learned. MAYBE Sondheim was so caught up with writing at length about pastiche that he forgot and/or neglected to mention that the song changed after that initial writing. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Billhaven 10:59 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - AlanScott 10:24 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| These concerts are put together so quickly that each performer gets very few opportunities to work on their numbers at length. They simply have to keep moving on. This concert involved many vets who had not performed in a while, as you stated. The pressure is intense. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:09 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Billhaven 10:59 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| ***These concerts are put together so quickly that each performer gets very few opportunities to work on their numbers at length. They simply have to keep moving on. This concert involved many vets who had not performed in a while, as you stated.*** I'm aware of that, but I have also head of many cases where, as soon as the lead performers sign on for these things, some of them arrange to work privately with coaches and pianists on their material before they even get to the first actual rehearsal. I think that's very wise, and it's certainly what I would do if I knew I were going to be singing/performing a role in a major venue and that it was going to be recorded by a major label. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 01:38 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 01:09 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
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| Trouble in this case would have been that even if they had done that, they all would have needed to get together to work on the counterpoint section. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:29 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Billhaven 10:59 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| I remember Thomas Shepard commenting about the concert and the recording. They had a very tight budget. Although it's hard to believe today, but back in 1985 Broadway recordings were expected to turn a profit or at least break even. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:41 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 01:12 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| ...the performance of "The God-Why-Don't-You-Love-Me Blues" as a solo for Buddy (!!!) rather than including the two women... I would LOVE to know how that came about. Perhaps the worst moment in the whole concert. |
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