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| This is NOT good | |
| Posted by: broadwaybacker 06:40 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| The dramatic rise of COVID in almost every state is very troubling with respect to the reopening of not only Broadway theater but tours and regional theater. Things were looking so positive two weeks ago. It’s so sad. There’s still time to reverse the curve, but given the fact that vaccines (and mask wearing) has become so politicized, I’m not optimistic. | |
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| re: This is NOT good | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 07:12 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: This is NOT good - broadwaybacker 06:40 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| What I have been hearing is that, of course, you can test positive when you are vaccinated. But illness will in 99% of cases be minor, You may not even know you are positive. And doctors are not sure that covid load you would be carrying copuld infect others. The rise in Covid rate, is, as I hear, mainly the Delta variant. And the people getting sick are in large part unvaccinated. I do believe that vaccination requirement, as at Springsteen, should be mainatined for every Broadway show, concert, off Broadway show etc, through at least the New Year. And audiences should be required to wear masks, as daunting as this is for some. I believe we can accomplish that, and all will be ok. Perhaps we need a few fewer chicken littles at this stage of the 'coming out'. |
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| re: This is NOT good | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:50 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: This is NOT good - NewtonUK 07:12 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
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| I agree both about the state of the science (with a few minor tweaks mentioned below) and what we should be doing about it. What I have read is that the non-minor instances are much less than 99%. "Minor" effects are generally equivalent to minor cold symptoms (not bad ones). Finally, it seems inconceivable to me that any doctor is unsure about cross-infection by the vaccinated: we are seeing too many examples in vaccinated couples for this to leave any doubt. The one compelling conclusion from all of this is that we need to be hardcore in requiring vaccinations. There are few safer places on earth than sitting in a crowded theatre in which everyone is vaccinated and wearing masks. That said, everyone has to find their own comfort zone and we should not be stigmatizing their choices. | |
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| re: This is NOT good--BUT, the science is. | |
| Posted by: broadwaybacker 09:52 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: This is NOT good - ryhog 08:50 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
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| Exactly. And just to drill a bit deeper into the science, the data out of Massachusetts is that only 1/10th of one percent of fully vaccinated people have developed so-called "breakthrough infections" (4.2 million people fully vaxed, 4450 breakthrough cases), and of those, 1.78% have died. That represents a death rate of 0.0019% among the fully vaxed. In addition, only 6.8% of the fully vaxed people who developed breakthrough infections that required hospitalization. Obviously, the sooner we're able to get shots into the arms of kids the better. Nationwide, there is a much higher incidence of disease among younger people, especially with respect to the delta variant. |
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| re: This is NOT good--BUT, the science is. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:41 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: This is NOT good--BUT, the science is. - broadwaybacker 09:52 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
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| Something is off in those stats and I suspect it is in what the percentages relate to. It is impossible that 1.78% of breakthrough cases have died. That would be 79.21 people, a large share of deaths since the first breakthrough cases were ID'd. Ditto for the 6.8%. That would be over 300 hospitalized breakthoughs. | |
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| re: This is NOT good--BUT, the science is. | |
| Posted by: broadwaybacker 02:20 pm EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: This is NOT good--BUT, the science is. - ryhog 11:41 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
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| As mikem said, this was reported yesterday in the Boston Globe. Here is the precise quote: "About 92% of the infections in vaccinated residents did not require hospitalizations, while 303 people, or 6.8%, were hospitalized, according to state Department of Public Health data through July 10. The Boston Herald reported the breakthrough data on Tuesday based on a public records request. Seventy-nine vaccinated residents in Massachusetts died from COVID-19, either without being hospitalized or following a hospital stay, DPH said. That death toll reflects 1.78% of the 4,450 confirmed breakthrough cases and 0.0019% of the 4,195,844 people fully vaccinated as of July 10." So rhyhog, your math was right, but your skepticism might have been misplaced. 79 deaths out of 4.2 million people vaccinated is a tiny number, and of course, we don't know what underlying medical conditins those 79 might have had. Same thing re the 303 hospitalized people, of whom some unreported number died. |
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| re: This is NOT good--BUT, the science is. | |
| Last Edit: mikem 11:58 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
| Posted by: mikem 11:57 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: This is NOT good--BUT, the science is. - ryhog 11:41 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
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| The 79 deaths and 303 hospitalizations are apparently correct numbers, as quoted by the Boston Globe and local news stations. I'm having trouble finding an overall number of deaths in Massachusetts since vaccination became available, but I agree that seems like too high a proportion of overall COVID deaths, though. | |
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| re: This is NOT good--BUT, the science is. | |
| Posted by: mikem 01:15 pm EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: This is NOT good--BUT, the science is. - mikem 11:57 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
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| Found some more info. We don't know when the 79 people were vaccinated, when they were vaccine-eligible, or when they died. The average age of someone who dies from COVID is still over 70. Massachusetts did not open their vaccine program up to the elderly until Feb 1, 2021 and to everyone over 13 until Apr 19. Roughly 1341 people have died from COVID in Massachusetts since Mar 15, 2021. 79 is 5.8% of those deaths. Roughly 407 people have died from COVID in Massachusetts since May 1, 2021. 79 is 19.4% of those deaths. I'm not sure any of the above information is all that helpful, though. Too much relevant info is missing. |
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| re: This is NOT good | |
| Posted by: NewsGuy 10:57 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
| In reply to: This is NOT good - broadwaybacker 06:40 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| It's time for Darwin to do his thing. | |
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| re: This is NOT good | |
| Posted by: mikem 08:52 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
| In reply to: This is NOT good - broadwaybacker 06:40 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| It is pretty unsettling. The rate in Los Angeles is the highest it's been since March, and close to five times the rate of a month ago. LA residents have to go back to wearing masks indoors starting this weekend. According to the NY Times, the national rate is twice that of two weeks ago, and the death rate is also higher than at that time. | |
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| re: This is NOT good | |
| Posted by: SQ 11:16 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: This is NOT good - mikem 08:52 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| I am fully vaccinated. I still am wearing a N95 mask indoors. I don't like getting sick even with a bad cold. I don't even want to get a "mild" case of Covid. |
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| re: This is NOT good | |
| Posted by: Snowgrace 10:21 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: This is NOT good - mikem 08:52 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| It is very unsettling & it was to be expected, given the sudden extremity to which restrictions have been lifted. The terrifying thing is that a lot of people (ie my mother, who had 4 weeks of joint pain so searing she nearly stroked out a couple of times, her bp & disorientation became so extreme) are only able to tolerate one dose of the 2 dose vaccines, & too scared to gamble on another. For a lot of them, it's not willfullness or selfishness. And some even fully vaccinated catch it & have bad symptoms. Masks on, PLEASE, indoors & I would say also in crowded outdoor settings....am fully vaccinated & I still keep wearing one. | |
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| Tonight's Yankee game | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:37 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
| In reply to: This is NOT good - broadwaybacker 06:40 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| ... was postponed because three Yankees pitchers—all vaccinated—tested positive. (The team is operating at an 85% vaccination rate.) | |
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| re: Tonight's Yankee game | |
| Posted by: PlazaBoy 09:04 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Tonight's Yankee game - MockingbirdGirl 08:37 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| That is truly unsetting. More roll backs to restrictions seem inevitable. Necessary, but hard to take. | |
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| Very selfish behavior. | |
| Last Edit: dramedy 07:23 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
| Posted by: dramedy 07:22 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
| In reply to: This is NOT good - broadwaybacker 06:40 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| I feel sorry for kids under 12 that can’t get vaccinated, it’s the adults responsibility to get vaccinated to protect others. But there are some on this site that refuse since it’s only emergency approved by government. I am surprised disney shows are starting up since they have a large portion of kids that won’t be vaccinated. | |
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| re: Very selfish behavior. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 07:41 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Very selfish behavior. - dramedy 07:22 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| I believe the expectation is that the vaccine will be available below 12 by September. I think there are going to be serious problems with tours in some areas, and I would be surprised if some are not called off in certain states. | |
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| re: Very selfish behavior. | |
| Posted by: gothamplaygoer 09:52 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Very selfish behavior. - ryhog 07:41 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| Sorry, but the vaccine will not be available for children below 12 until next year. At least that's what today's newscasts say. | |
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| re: Very selfish behavior. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:22 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Very selfish behavior. - gothamplaygoer 09:52 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| I am seeing a wide range of estimates. Pfizer said today it expects data in September for 5-11, and if the results are consistent it says there could be an EUA by the end of that month. Younger kids will definitely be later than that. Apparently Moderna's data is combined to age 2. We shall see. I think that, if it is safe and effective, this will be fast tracked because it is that important. We shall see of course. | |
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| re: Very selfish behavior. | |
| Posted by: broadwaybacker 07:46 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Very selfish behavior. - ryhog 07:41 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| I agree. I think that’s likely. | |
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| re: Very selfish behavior. | |
| Posted by: dbdbdb 10:46 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Very selfish behavior. - broadwaybacker 07:46 pm EDT 07/15/21 | |
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| According to today's news, an FDA official says that midwinter is the mostly likely time when kids' vaccinations will start | |
| Link | https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccines-kids-under-age-12-expected-mid-winter-fda-official-n1274057 |
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| re: Very selfish behavior. | |
| Last Edit: mgm79 06:53 pm EDT 07/16/21 | |
| Posted by: mgm79 06:50 pm EDT 07/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Very selfish behavior. - dbdbdb 10:46 am EDT 07/16/21 | |
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| I don't usually chime in on this topic, but the"very selfish behavior" headline caught me. I got vaxxed as soon as it was available to me. Arriving to the vax site - the local Armory - I felt an overwhelming rush of civic pride. That is so not my scene - rebel at heart. But here I was ready to take a small part in putting down a plague that was attacking my friends, my neighbors, and fellow countrymen that I don't know. I felt I was doing something of great importance to help all of us get through this modern tragedy. No, I am not a person who waves the flag - of any sort. No, I am not a member of the military. No, I am not an avid church-goer. And, no, I am not a social butterfly or "people person." Just a shy, introverted, artist who likes to do the right thing whenever possible as long as I don't have to break a sustained sweat or make idle chat with strangers. It cost me nothing to get vaxxed and I know that my efforts were helping myself and OTHERS to stay healthy and avoid a horrific illness or death. For some reason, I cannot shake the feeling that those who are choosing not to get vaxxed - health concerns excused and exempted - are telling me very clearly that they don't give a wit about their friends, neighbors, fellow countrymen. Religious issue? Not wading into those shark infested waters, but why aren't the churches making bigger efforts to save their worshippers and futures? The ads on Australian TV urging Aussies to get vaxxed showing a woman on a ventilator with a horrific expression struggling to breathe is chilling. Where are these ads in this country? Too upsetting? Too real? Too graphic? Too honest? "Think of the children!" Enough. If you don't want to get vaxxed, fine. But what you are saying to me - no matter whatever screed and BS that pops out of your mouth - is that your fellow countrymen don't matter. Actions speak louder than words. It costs you nothing. I felt like I was an patriot getting vaxxed. Some wags would say I'm delusional, but at least I'm alive. And my actions may have kept someone else alive. That was worth it in my mind. (Jumping down from soapbox) |
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