Threaded Order Chronological Order
| "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Does anyone know any background on why ALW wrote the same song for two separate shows with different lyrics. Was he really that much out of ideas? Has Andrew Lloyd Webber spoken of the matter? Has any other composer done this before? I love "Our Kind of Love" as sung by Hannah Waddingham (now of "Ted Lasso" fame). | |
| Link | "Our Kind of Love" in THE BEAUTIFUL GAME |
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| Alan Menken | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 12:32 pm EDT 08/24/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Menken basically reused LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS' "Somewhere That's Green" in THE LITTLE MERMAID as "Part of Your World." | |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 09:08 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 09:01 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| I saw The Beautiful Game the summer of 2001, and thought the song was ravishing in context. Its pop sensibilities fit the piece more than than Phantom, at least to my ears. But hasn't it been cut from that show? I haven't kept up. (The BG score landed for me, and I bought the CD in Healthrow, just before my flight). UPDATE: Yes, when The Beautiful Game became The Boys in the Photograph (what a title!), "Our Kind of Love" bit the dust. |
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| the song’s history | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 01:04 pm EDT 08/20/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - Delvino 09:01 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
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| Delvino, check my post below. i chronicled the evolution of the song. Laura |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: TMGnyc 03:08 pm EDT 08/19/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Many, many years ago I discovered that Cy Coleman did this. I was cast as Oscar in Sweet Charity. When it came to the Coney Island scene, the background music sounded so familiar but I couldn't quite place it. I kept humming it and humming it until I realized Coleman had used it for a song in Barnum - Love Makes Such Fools Of Us All. | |
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| Jule Styne combo | |
| Posted by: WayneM 04:20 pm EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| In "Fade Out Fade In" the song was Call Me Savage The same lyricists Comden and Green resurected the tune in "Halleluhah, Baby" and called it Witches Brew |
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| JIm Steinman | |
| Posted by: Hair 03:19 pm EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| I was watching a documentary about Jim Steinman and he put what was to become Total Eclipse of teh Heart into about 5 different musicals from his school days until Dance of the Vampires and had several artists record the tune as well..,and a lot of times it had the same basic lyrics in every show -- it wasn't just the melody! | |
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| HEDDATRON? | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 01:03 pm EDT 08/20/21 | |
| In reply to: JIm Steinman - Hair 03:19 pm EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Did the documentary include the incredibly bizarre play, HEDDATRON, which features an unhappy modern-day Michigan housewife, Ibsen and Strindberg, and, oh, yeah, robots? Because the robots sing “Total Eclipse of the Heart.” Laura |
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| re: JIm Steinman | |
| Last Edit: mikem 12:07 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
| Posted by: mikem 12:06 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
| In reply to: JIm Steinman - Hair 03:19 pm EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| As a record producer, Steinman also had several artists re-record songs he's already written and produced for a different artist. I think he was fantastic, but sometimes I feel like he only wrote about 20 songs and just kept having different artists do them until they became a hit. Barbra Streisand, Taylor Dayne, Celine Dion, and Barry Manilow all hit the charts with songs that Steinman had originally written and produced with another artist. Another recycler who is primarily known for pop is Dave Stewart of Eurythmics, who was one of the songwriters for Ghost: The Musical. His song, "Taking Chances," which he originally had his own group, Platinum Weird, record before it became the title track of a Celine Dion album, borrows from "Here Comes the Rain Again," a big hit by Eurythmics. |
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| re: Jim Steinman | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 11:05 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 11:04 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
| In reply to: re: JIm Steinman - mikem 12:06 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
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| Original Sin by Pandora's box was a little-known Steinman album, and one I enjoyed... but I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of the songs were covered later! | |
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| "Blue Moon" and some others | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 02:54 pm EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| "Blue Moon" was 3 other songs (to the same melody) before it became "Blue Moon." Loesser wrote a song called "Three Cornered Tune" (in waltz time) that eventually became "Fugue For Tinhorns." "I Don't Know How To Love Him" started off as a commercial jingle (of all things) called "Kansas Morning." "Suddenly Lucky" was cut from South Pacific to become "Getting To Know You" in The King And I. |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 02:38 pm EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Yes, ALW has discussed the evolution and use of the song. Let’s see if I can recap it. In 1990 or so, ALW considered a POTO sequel. The first version of the song was written in these early stages, but was known as “The Heart Is Slow To Learn.” Frederick Forsyth wrote his novel about the Coney Island Phantom, and then things stalled. The song was recorded, I think at some benefit concerts, by Kiri Te Kanawa and also Elaine Paige. With POTO II shelved, in 2000, ALW stuck the song in THE BEAUTIFUL GAME as “Our Kind of Love,” but he says he never thought it fit with the rest of the score. Then he went off and did THE WOMAN IN WHITE, and the song wasn’t used there at all. I think. :) In 2008-9, ALW removed the song from THE BOYS IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, the revised and renamed version of THE BEAUTIFUL GAME. This was probably both because he never felt it fit in the football story and because he was gearing up for 2010’s LOVE NEVER DIES…and the song was restored for the scenario for which it was originally written. So while I think one can rightly accuse ALW of snitching other people’s melodies for his own stuff, I’ll cut him some slack here. He first intended the song for the place it ultimately ended up; it’s only if you were a fan of original THE BEAUTIFUL GAME (which I actually like much more than LND— but then the list of shows I despise more than LND is pretty damn short). But as it stands now, it’s not in the licensed BOYS IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, and I don’t believe you can stage the original TBG. Laura |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 01:02 am EDT 08/19/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - showtunetrivia 02:38 pm EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| I was at opening night of ABG and cried my eyes out. | |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: GavinLogan1 06:24 pm EDT 08/19/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:02 am EDT 08/19/21 | |
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| I directed the Canadian AMATEUR premiere of “The Boys in the Photograph” at high school where I teach. It was an extremely difficult and emotional show, and the kids NAILED it. The rewrite is quite good— three new songs (“The Boys in the Photograph”, “Born In Belfast”— a fantastic rocker, and “It Will Never End”— a really dour, dark, song for the final confrontation between John and Thomas). The cut songs weren’t missed, really— “Our Kind of Love” and “To Have and To Hold” (the wedding song, beautiful but not entirely necessary). The show is beautiful and powerful. And I love *most* of Ben Elton’s lyrics. :) |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:02 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - GavinLogan1 06:24 pm EDT 08/19/21 | |
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| Thanks for that info. I wish more people could see it. I recorded “All the Love I Have” on my album. | |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: GavinLogan1 12:57 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 12:02 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
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| What album???? That’s extremely cool! | |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 08:16 pm EDT 08/20/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - GavinLogan1 12:57 am EDT 08/20/21 | |
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| The album is titled "Eric Millegan: Better...With Friends." It's on Spotify and other music services. It was recorded in late 2017. Includes duets with Estelle Parsons, Emily Deschanel, Jenna Gavigan, and Tracy Stark and the first recording of a song from Barry Mann & Cynthia Weil's MASK score. I'm proud of it especially the duet with Estelle. | |
| Link | "You're Just In Love" if you're interested |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: bway1430 06:32 am EDT 08/19/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:02 am EDT 08/19/21 | |
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| I really wish I had seen that production. | |
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| Sondheim too | |
| Posted by: toros 10:45 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Sondheim did this too. The original opening number for ASSASSINS, "The Flag Song," was cut and repurposed for "WISE GUYS and ROAD SHOW (not BOUNCE) as "It's In Your Hands Now." | |
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| Jerry Herman too | |
| Posted by: stevemr 09:43 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| It's not that uncommon. Jerry Herman took a wonderful song called "Show Tune in 2/4" from his off-Broadway show Parade, and refashioined it as It's Today in Mame. | |
| Link | "Show Tune" from Parade |
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| re: Jerry Herman too | |
| Posted by: kess0078 01:02 pm EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: Jerry Herman too - stevemr 09:43 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Herman’s “It Takes a Woman” and “We Need a Little Christmas” are essentially the same song, too. | |
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| re: Jerry Herman too | |
| Posted by: jgerard 11:35 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: Jerry Herman too - stevemr 09:43 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Herman "repurposed" other folks' songs, too! NB "Bella Notte" from Lady and the Tramp and "Song on the Sand" from La Cage... | |
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| re: Sure... | |
| Last Edit: bway1430 03:41 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| Posted by: bway1430 03:39 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| The melody was originally for a song called "The Heart is Slow to Learn" which was intended for a Phantom sequel in the late 90's. Kiri Te Kanawa premiered the song at his 50th Birthday concert in April, 1998 and it is probably somewhere on YouTube. At that time the sequel was just an idea and seemed to be going nowhere despite a promising draft from Frederick Forsythe. This went nowhere though Forsythe turned his draft into a novel (which was far superior to the LOVE NEVER DIES plot which bears similarities). Fast forward to 2000 and the idea of the Phantom sequel appears to be dead while ALWs attention turns to writing THE BEAUTIFUL GAME. With the Phantom sequel project not happening, he repurposes that melody at "Our Kind of Love" for his new show. Eventually, as we all know, a Phantom sequel did eventually occur a decade later and ALW said he wanted to rightfully restore that melody to the show it was always intended for. He was very vocal about the fact that this was not a new melody but one that had been used before. As mentioned in other threads, this is nothing new as other composers have done the same and it is certainly not the only time ALW has borrowed one of his own melodies for more than one project: "Memory" was initially a song called "One Star" and written for a very early draft of SUNSET BLVD in the late 1970's. A fair number of melodies from ASPECTS OF LOVE were repurposed from the CRICKET musical he wrote with Tim Rice as a gift for the Queen. Ditto for bits of THE LIKES OF US which ended up in JOSEPH and a few songs in JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR were originally meant to be pop singles: "I Don't Know How To Love Him" was a cheesy ballad called "Kansas Morning". |
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| re: Sure... | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:57 am EDT 08/19/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Sure... - bway1430 03:39 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Great info, thanks! | |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: Sam890 03:31 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| The song was originally written for Lloyd Webber's Phantom sequel with different lyrics (see clip) but when the Phantom sequel was shelved Ben Elton wanted to use the melody for The Beautiful Game. Lloyd Webber was apparently not keen on the idea but relented. When the idea of a Phantom sequel was revived Lloyd Webber returned the song to its original place (with different lyrics). He has said that using the melody in The Beautiful Game was a mistake and that it 'stuck out like a sore thumb' from the rest of the score | |
| Link | The Heart is Slow to Learn |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 12:55 am EDT 08/19/21 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:54 am EDT 08/19/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - Sam890 03:31 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Wow. I disagree with him. I like the song much better in A Beautiful Game. I much prefer the key it’s sung in. Thanks for the info! | |
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| Jule Styne | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 01:49 pm EDT 08/18/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 01:44 pm EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - Sam890 03:31 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| In a cut number from "Subways Are For Sleeping" sung by Adolph Green on the reissued CD, it has the musical section later incorporated into "Funny Girl" starting with "Who is the pip with pizzazz.... " etc. Question: is that the same melody/riff used in both "I'm the Greatest Star" and "Don't Rain on My Parade"? Plus a song from "The Dangerous Christmas of Red Riding Hood" Liza Minnelli tv musical ended up as song in "Sugar" later on -- "I'm Naive". These is in addition to the other instances listed below in this thread. | |
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| "Climbing over rocky mountain" | |
| Posted by: young-walsingham 03:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Arthur Sullivan reused the tune (originally in Thespis) for "The Pirates of Penzance". Not sure how much of the original lyric was re-used. | |
| Link | Here |
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| Not the same composer but there’s Lerner’s “I Remember It Well” in “Love Life” and “Gigi.” | |
| Posted by: kieran 01:59 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| nm | |
| Link | “Love Life” |
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| re: Not the same composer but there’s Lerner’s “I Remember It Well” in “Love Life” and “Gigi.” | |
| Posted by: kieran 02:04 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: Not the same composer but there’s Lerner’s “I Remember It Well” in “Love Life” and “Gigi.” - kieran 01:59 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| I realize this isn’t quite the same as reusing music and changing the lyrics. | |
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| re: Not the same composer but there’s Lerner’s “I Remember It Well” in “Love Life” and “Gigi.” | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 11:53 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Not the same composer but there’s Lerner’s “I Remember It Well” in “Love Life” and “Gigi.” - kieran 02:04 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| I have this somewhere in my library, but my foot hurts too much to go upstairs, but after Weill’s death, Lotte Lenya was pressuring Alan Jay Lerner to do more with LOVE LIFE. Then she saw GIGI, and realized he didn’t want people to know he had written the earlier song. Laura |
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| re: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 01:44 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
| In reply to: "Love Never Dies"/"Our Kind of Love" - KingSpeed 01:25 am EDT 08/18/21 | |
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| Jule Styne did the same thing a few times. He took the song "I'm in Pursuit of Happiness" from Ruggles of Red Gap and used it again in Gypsy as "You'll Never Get Away from Me" with new lyrics by Sondheim. He also took "Call Me Savage" from Fade Out -- Fade In and used it Hallelujah, Baby! as "Witches' Brew" with new lyrics by Comden and Green. | |
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