Threaded Order Chronological Order
| Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. | |
| Posted by: Delvino 09:21 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| "Why would a teenager write to a friend with the salutation, 'Dear Evan Hansen,' as if it’s 1825?" A nitpicky quibble that perhaps nails why the plot construct's artifice feels magnified by the camera for so many (31% on RT this morning). |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? | |
| Posted by: broadwaybacker 06:30 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. - Delvino 09:21 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| Did I miss something or did the Tony award best musical, that played (and might well do so again, but who knows?) to sold out audiences, not have the same title? | |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 07:32 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? - broadwaybacker 06:30 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| Maybe I'm the one who missed something, but did anyone say that the show and the movie don't have the same title? Maybe this person wasn't really aware of the show, or just didn't choose to comment on the title until the movie was made. | |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? | |
| Posted by: broadwaybacker 09:41 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? - Michael_Portantiere 07:32 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| My point was that if the so-called "problem" with DEH started with the name, the "problem" would have manifested itself long before the film, one would have thought. | |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:01 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? - broadwaybacker 09:41 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| Yes, and my point is that the so-called "problem" -- which definitely is a problem, in my opinion -- of course was manifest from the beginning, from the time that title was affixed to the stage musical. It's just that no one seemed to notice, or if they did notice, no one seemed to be bothered by it. P.S. I write this as someone who is a big fan of the show AND the film overall. | |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:35 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? - Michael_Portantiere 11:01 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| Perhaps they should have stuck to the original working title - "The PPL Project" (Pasek, Paul, Levenson). That's what it was when I played for some college auditions for a Boston reading of it early on. :-) | |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? | |
| Posted by: mikem 12:46 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? - Chromolume 12:35 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| From a practical viewpoint, I think the opening of the letter is problematic from the bookwriter's perspective. Connor's family has to know it's Evan Hansen and not some other Evan, so his last name has to be in there, even though no teenager would ever write that last name when addressing a friend. Or they could have given the protagonist a unique first name, but that brings up other issues. So it doesn't make sense, but there is a lot that's artificial about a stage musical anyway, so it isn't that bothersome. But a film may need to be more "real." | |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 08:06 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? - mikem 12:46 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| "Connor's family has to know it's Evan Hansen and not some other Evan, so his last name has to be in there, even though no teenager would ever write that last name when addressing a friend. Or they could have given the protagonist a unique first name, but that brings up other issues." I've thought of that, but it seems to me that this problem could have been easily solved. First of all, I would say that Evan is an uncommon enough name that the Murphys could have arrived at Evan Hansen as the recipient through process of elimination, and then their idea that he was the recipient would have been pretty much confirmed by Connor's huge signature on Evan's cast. Or, if that strains credibility, then, as you suggested, Evan could have been given an even more unusual first name, or a nickname, that would have avoided the issue of his last name having been included in the salutation. What other issues do you think would have been brought up by giving Evan a unique first name? |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:23 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? - Michael_Portantiere 08:06 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| Perhaps his name could have been Trashelle? :-) | |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? | |
| Posted by: mikem 09:24 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title.--REALLY?? - Chromolume 08:23 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| I think if Evan has a unique first name, it raises questions about why he has such an unusual name and how that has affected him. Heidi having given him an unusual name might cause an audience member to read something into that about the choice she made, whether his unusual name adds to his social anxiety/isolation, stuff like that. Also, he's supposed to be an "Everyman" kind of kid. If they are intent on using "Dear So-and-so" as the title, an unusual name may make it harder to market the show without having to explain his name all the time. I think there's a difference between the title being, "Dear Evan," and being, "Dear Evan Hansen." The latter is a better title in my opinion. You are right that it's fairly solvable in that he could be the only Evan in his grade, so when they first have him come to the principal's office, they aren't sure but the "CONNOR" on the cast seals the deal. I forgot about the cast. |
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| Dear Mr. Roper | |
| Posted by: stevemr 04:28 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. - Delvino 09:21 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| Evan didn't write that letter to a friend. He wrote it to himself. And thus his troubles began! | |
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| re: Dear Mr. Roper | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:41 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: Dear Mr. Roper - stevemr 04:28 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| "Evan didn't write that letter to a friend. He wrote it to himself." I believe you have missed the point, which is that Connor's mother -- and, eventually, lots of other people -- BELIEVE that Connor wrote the letter to Evan. Which means no one finds it odd that someone like Connor would use the "Dear" salutation in addressing Evan, not do they find it incredibly strange that Connor would use Evan's full name in writing a letter to him. Seriously, how often have you received a personal note from a friend with a salutation that contained your full first and last names? This is something that simply never happens. Which is why, from the beginning, I've said that the only major problem I have with DEAR EVAN HANSEN is the title -- but I've never heard of anyone else sharing that opinion until someone posted this about Richard Roper. P.S. All of the above on top of the fact that nowadays, as far as I know, when teenagers write to one another, they almost always do so via texts or maybe emails. And the percentage of times when they instead do so by composing a letter with a word processing program, then printing it out to hand to the recipient, is likely very close to zero. So this, to me, is yet another problem with the central plot point of DEAR EVAN HANSEN. |
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| Unless..... | |
| Posted by: Teacher64 12:38 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Dear Mr. Roper - Michael_Portantiere 04:41 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| ....the person assumed to be writing the letter (in this case Connor) has committed suicide and the letter was his "Goodbye" letter and he wanted to make sure that it went to the right "Evan". | |
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| re: Unless..... | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 08:09 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: Unless..... - Teacher64 12:38 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| "....the person assumed to be writing the letter (in this case Connor) has committed suicide and the letter was his 'Goodbye' letter and he wanted to make sure that it went to the right 'Evan'." Interesting, but the content of the note is nothing like that of a suicide note. And also, that brings up all sorts of questions as to why Connor would have been carrying around a hard copy of a letter that he hadn't delivered to the recipient, let alone why he didn't just write to Evan via text or email. |
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| re: Dear Mr. Roper | |
| Posted by: comedywest 11:11 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Dear Mr. Roper - Michael_Portantiere 04:41 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| "Good grief, Charlie Brown" That's the only time off hand I can recall friends calling another friend by their full name. And when we watched it as kids, we all said, "They all call him by his full name. No one does that." |
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| re: Dear Mr. Roper | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 08:14 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Dear Mr. Roper - comedywest 11:11 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| "Good grief, Charlie Brown" That's the only time off hand I can recall friends calling another friend by their full name. And when we watched it as kids, we all said, "They all call him by his full name. No one does that." Exactly. Thank you :-) But, of course, that's part of the joke in Peanuts; the other characters call Charlie Brown by his full name as some sort of stylized conceit to bring home the fact that he is somehow separate from all of the other kids. Very different situation with DEAR EVAN HANSEN. |
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| re: Dear Mr. Roper | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:09 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Dear Mr. Roper - Michael_Portantiere 08:14 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| I'm also not aware that anyone else, aside from Lucy and Linus (Van Pelt) even had a last name. :-) | |
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| That’s a style feature that goes back to the very first strip of PEANUTS | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 04:40 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Dear Mr. Roper - comedywest 11:11 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| In which Shermy and Patty (not the later Peppermit Patty) watch Charlie Brown pass, and remark, “Here comes Charlie Brown. Good ol’ Charlie Brown. How I hate him.” He’s never just plain Charlie, though Peppermint Patty calls him Chuck. Laura, comics nerd |
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| re: Dear Mr. Roper | |
| Posted by: J.Collins 03:14 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Dear Mr. Roper - Michael_Portantiere 04:41 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| The problem here is that just because it's not something you (or your friends) would do, you find it impossible to believe that ANYONE would do it. People have all sorts of in jokes, nicknames, 'oddities' that they share with friends. If you were writing letters to each other for a 'lark' (a seemingly antiquated practice) it makes total sense to me that you might match that with the highly affected "Dear Evan Hansen". People have all sorts of quirks, just because they don't happen to align with yours doesn't make them impossible. You've expressed attitudes and behavior on here that I find 'unbelievable', so everyone is different. | |
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| re: Dear Mr. Roper | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:04 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Dear Mr. Roper - J.Collins 03:14 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| I don't think your snarky response was justified, and I stand by my feeling that no one would ever write a serious, heartfelt letter to someone else and use that person's full name and address as the salutation. I suppose it's possible, as you say, that someone might do that with a light or jokey letter, as sort of an in-joke satirizing the formality of letters, but that hardly describes the letter that causes all the trouble in DEAR EVAN HANSEN. | |
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| re: Dear Mr. Roper | |
| Posted by: J.Collins 10:15 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Dear Mr. Roper - Michael_Portantiere 11:04 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| No snark, just facts. You've said things on here I would NEVER say. All I'm saying is that sometimes people behave in ways that you don't 'get' (as you have done on here), that doesn't make the behavior impossible | |
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| re: Dear Mr. Roper | |
| Posted by: Sam890 10:31 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Dear Mr. Roper - J.Collins 10:15 pm EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| I agree. Once I would have thought "surely nobody would joke about suicide on a public forum", but Mr Portantiere proved me wrong there. People (and characters) are always behaving in ways we may not understand, that's what makes life interesting, I guess | |
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| “In nineteenth century Russia…” | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 11:26 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. - Delvino 09:21 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| “…we write letters, we write letters.” Laura, now trying to imagine a mashup of DEH and GREAT COMET… |
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| re: “In nineteenth century Russia…” | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 11:54 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:46 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: “In nineteenth century Russia…” - showtunetrivia 11:26 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| When I did the stage door after seeing Natasha, Pierre, Groban, Belton, and Steele were an absolute hoot and kept causing each other to break into laughter while signing Playbills. I can definitely envision Groban sending a faux-gay e-mail to Steele beginning "Dear Tolly Kuragin". Unfortunately, it doesn't scan as well as "Dear Evan Hansen". Maybe "Dear Andy Bolkonsky" would be better. Steele or Belton could reply "Dear Piotr Bezuhov". Russian names have too many syllables. They need to be shorter. |
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| re: “In nineteenth century Russia…” | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 12:38 pm EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: re: “In nineteenth century Russia…” - BroadwayTonyJ 11:46 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| Yeah, it’s like everyone’s got nine different names! :) Laura, watching the temperature rise again |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 09:43 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 09:37 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. - Delvino 09:21 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| Connor might do it as a joke, especially as a gay joke. However, in the show it's really only Connor's mother who believes (or wants to believe unconditionally) that her son wrote the letter. I actually knew a young guy in my office (decades ago, probably in the late 90's) who was straight but liked to send gay-sounding e-mails to other straight guys. He worked in customer service back then. Today he is a fairly well known comic/actor in Chicago. He appeared on Letterman twice, Chicago PD once, a couple of TV commercials, PBS, and the U. He's a good friend of mine. A lot of people in my office actually did think he was gay. If this actor friend of mine were younger, I could imagine him knocking the song "Sincerely Me" out of the park on YouTube. I might just suggest it to him. |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:40 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. - BroadwayTonyJ 09:37 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| The letter is posted on the internet and people believe it. | |
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| Richard Roeper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 06:38 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 06:35 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. - KingSpeed 12:40 am EDT 10/03/21 | |
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| Yes, but that happens toward the end of the movie. Initially only Cynthia Murphy and Larry have seen the letter. Cynthia gives the letter back to Evan in the principal's office. Cynthia is so overwrought at the loss of her troubled son, possibly on the verge of a nervous breakdown, that she isn't going to analyze the format of the letter. She wants to believe that Connor wrote it to Evan. I disagree with Roeper's analysis. | |
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| re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. | |
| Posted by: Gregv212 10:37 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. - BroadwayTonyJ 09:37 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| ‘liked to send gay-sounding e-mails to other straight guys’ This “comic” fiend of yours sounds like a real laugh riot. However well known he is in Chicago he should stay there. 🙄 |
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| Richard Roeper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 11:17 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:06 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Richard Roper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. - Gregv212 10:37 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| No. He's a really nice guy, well-liked and respected in the Chicago community. The e-mails were not mean spirited. He would portray himself as faux-gay. He was only about 21 or so when he did stuff like that. The things he did reminded me of the e-mails that Jared concocts for his imaginary Connor. Jared suggests (jokingly) that Evan and Connor were secretly gay friends. The actual gay guys in our office were not offended by him. They thought he was funny and harmless. I wouldn't consider Jared's actions in Hansen to be offensive. He's funny. As I said before, David Letterman featured him on his show twice. |
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| Hello Dolly, the problem starts with the title | |
| Posted by: Glamourboy (rachellynnsweet@gmail.com) 03:59 am EDT 10/04/21 | |
| In reply to: Richard Roeper on DEH: the problem starts with the title. - BroadwayTonyJ 11:06 am EDT 10/02/21 | |
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| Would the waiters at the Harmonia Gardens, who haven't seen Dolly Levi for many years, really feel comfortable greeting her by her first name? Wouldn't it be frowned upon at a ritzy restaurant for the waiters to take that liberty? Shouldn't the title of the musical be, Hello Mrs Levi? | |
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| re: Hello Dolly, the problem starts with the title | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:06 pm EDT 10/04/21 | |
| In reply to: Hello Dolly, the problem starts with the title - Glamourboy 03:59 am EDT 10/04/21 | |
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| Hello, Levi! sounds snappier, though. ;-) | |
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