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| Jeremy O. Harris is withdrawing “Slave Play” from Center Theatre Group’s new season. | |
| Posted by: kieran 06:26 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| Link | “Slave Play” |
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| Sounds laudable, but... | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 09:07 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 09:05 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: Jeremy O. Harris is withdrawing “Slave Play” from Center Theatre Group’s new season. - kieran 06:26 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| ... I don't entirely trust his motives. It smacks a bit of "going home and taking my toys with me." It's hard not to wonder if the Tonys outcome had something to do with this, given that the all-male slate of playwrights has been known for months. (And three months seems pretty tight to mount an all-new production in its place, unless plans are already fairly advanced.) | |
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| re: Sounds laudable, but... | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:19 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: Sounds laudable, but... - MockingbirdGirl 09:05 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| I could see this having been in the works for awhile, but then it seems like the Broadway producers must be caught off guard by this, since they announced the Broadway return as being in advance of the LA production. I never fully trust his motives since he's a massive narcissist (see his play all about him having sex, which he showed up to an hour late because he was watching another show), but you can't deny that he's done a lot of good for theater makers and that he puts his money where his mouth is. | |
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| re: Sounds laudable, but... | |
| Last Edit: AC126748 01:11 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
| Posted by: AC126748 01:09 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds laudable, but... - Singapore/Fling 09:19 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| The reaction to Harris here reminds me of the Colin Kaepernick situation -- no matter how he would have chosen to handle this, he would have be criticized from some flank. I struggle to understand what people think he has to gain from withdrawing the play. As you note, he can also be a massive narcissist -- or, at least, that's the character he's performing for the public -- and also walk the walk in terms of allyship. (I think it's also clear that a lot of people just don't like him or are put off by his persona and will take any opportunity to criticize him.) | |
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| re: Sounds laudable, but... | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 05:30 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds laudable, but... - AC126748 01:09 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
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| As you note, he can also be a massive narcissist -- or, at least, that's the character he's performing for the public -- and also walk the walk in terms of allyship. I think you've put your finger on the crux of the problem: it's difficult to tell if he's being performative or not. |
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| re: Sounds laudable, but... | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:11 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds laudable, but... - MockingbirdGirl 05:30 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
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| Whether he’s being performative or not, what difference does it make? He’s forgoing a lucrative opportunity and potentially upsetting some powerful producers in order to put CTG in a checkmate where they effectively have to program a cis-female playwright - I don’t think there’s anyway to pull that off without leveraging social media - and he devoted most of his public statement to naming numerous female playwrights whose work deserves attention. We live in a performative, social media era, and he’s a performative figure… who’s still doing the activism. |
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| Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 07:53 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 07:53 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: Jeremy O. Harris is withdrawing “Slave Play” from Center Theatre Group’s new season. - kieran 06:26 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| That sounds counterproductive. | |
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| re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:23 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? - PlayWiz 07:53 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| He's not doing that if CTG programs a different play which would presumably also have women, men, and POC actors in it. | |
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| re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 10:20 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 10:13 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? - Singapore/Fling 09:23 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| The actors most likely have contracts to appear in this play, as does the theater to present it. Those are legal documents with all those implications and union representation. The people hired aren't necessarily the right actors to put right into some other play in a relatively short period of time, nor to have a production team of designers, director, and costumes ready. | |
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| re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:53 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? - PlayWiz 10:13 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| Right, those actors would be out of jobs, but this wouldn't necessarily be a net loss of actors having jobs. I don't offer that as a plus or minus for this situation, just as an answer to your question about female actors having the chance to work. I'm quite surprised, though, that he is able to withdraw this... it implies that they never reached a signed contract on the show. |
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| re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 11:09 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 11:07 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? - Singapore/Fling 10:53 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| Yes, all those people would be out of work; I didn't say just women -- though Harris focused on that demographic for playwrights. Harris may not be able to do this without being liable. Up to the lawyers, the actors' agents and managers and Equity and the crews' union. The theater going ahead after an 18-month layoff to present a controversial play they've promoted, sold tickets to, and he's putting focus on HIMSELF, by pulling it and leaving the theater to scramble? He might have to pay. | |
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| Focusing on Celine Song, Tori Sampson, Aleesha Harris, Claire Kiechel, Antoinette Chinonye Nwandu, Ming Peiffer, Whitney White, Clare Barron, Majkin Holmquist, Genne Murphy, and Aziza Barnes | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 11:52 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:51 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? - PlayWiz 11:07 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| Your target seems to be moving a bit. In terms of Harris, he didn't just put the focus on HIMSELF, he also put it on Celine Song, Tori Sampson, Aleesha Harris, Claire Kiechel, Antoinette Chinonye Nwandu, Ming Peiffer, Whitney White, Clare Barron, Majkin Holmquist, Genne Murphy, Aziza Barnes... and of course on CTG for only programming one female playwright in its entire season. All of these women deserve stages, and CTG could program works by any of them to fill that open slot. In terms of CTG, they're presenting a controversial play that is also the most Tony-nominated play in history and whose controversy would help sell more tickets, so I question making it seem like they're the ones taking a huge risk on the most talked about play of the past few years. If Harris is able to pull his play at this point, I am presuming he is doing so legally.... but if he's not, he's likely doing it with full awareness of what it will cost him monetarily (and, of course, he's also forgoing the money the theater would have paid him, on top of selling more copies of the book and getting more industry folks in LA to know his writing and hire him for more film gigs). |
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| re: Focusing on playwrights the company hadn't a contract with nor any deal with -- those are suggestions | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 02:18 am EDT 10/06/21 | |
| In reply to: Focusing on Celine Song, Tori Sampson, Aleesha Harris, Claire Kiechel, Antoinette Chinonye Nwandu, Ming Peiffer, Whitney White, Clare Barron, Majkin Holmquist, Genne Murphy, and Aziza Barnes - Singapore/Fling 11:51 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| made by someone prominent in theater currently, which they have no obligation to substitute this season when there's a slot in their season they've sold to subscribers and will now have to rectify. | |
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| re: Focusing on playwrights who aren’t him | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:13 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Focusing on playwrights the company hadn't a contract with nor any deal with -- those are suggestions - PlayWiz 02:18 am EDT 10/06/21 | |
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| But again, your argument was he made it about HIMSELF, when he made it at least as much about CTG and highlighted these playwrights. So which is it? | |
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| Gee, took you all day to come up with that? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 12:38 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:25 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Focusing on playwrights who aren’t him - Singapore/Fling 10:13 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
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| Deflecting doesn't work here, certainly not enough to keep me interested in your arguments. I'm off the case -- and off this thread. | |
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| It took me all day to read your post | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 02:09 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 01:56 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: Gee, took you all day to come up with that? - PlayWiz 12:25 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| And then four seconds to respond. And you are the one deflecting when you keep moving your target. And until then, this was a pleasant enough conversation. But let's recap, since you decided to go on the offensive here, First it was "He says he wants to support women playwrights, but what about women actors?" as if this is just an issue of substituting one set of women for another. When that was answered, you switched to "Oh, there were legal documents and other people were employed". When that was answered, it was "Oh, he's made this all about HIMSELF". When that was answered it was, "Oh, he's put pressure on the theater to do something they might not do". When that was answered by pointing you back to the argument about making it about HIMSELF, it was "Oh, you're stupid and I'm not going bother with you anymore". So you're making it about YOURSELF and your need to complain about Harris from any angle you can find. Which is a shame, because what we should be talking about is why CTG programmed a season - after an 18 month hiatus in which they had plenty of time to read all of the plays out there, which is their job - that has only one female playwright. Which is gross and objectionable on every level, but which you seem completely fine with. Not a single peep about the issue that Jeremy O. Harris is asking us to have the conversation focus on. No, you only want to talk about him, while claiming he's making it about himself, but actually YOU'RE making it about him. See what you did there? PS, I do kind of love this passive aggressive immaturity where you think you can mock me and then blow me off and I'm gonna feel bad about it or something. I don't. |
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| re: It took me all day to read your post | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 11:34 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 11:30 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: It took me all day to read your post - Singapore/Fling 01:56 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| But of course, you enjoy having the last word on everything. Even when you spew utter nonsense and attack me. Water off a duck's back. Moving forward, it's a beautiful day today! | |
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| delete - double post | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 12:40 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:28 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: Gee, took you all day to come up with that? - PlayWiz 12:25 am EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? | |
| Posted by: dramedy 09:00 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? - PlayWiz 07:53 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| My guess is the play didn’t win the tony and CTG is looking for something else and this just makes Harris look noble and CTG takes a small publicity hit that is easily overcome. But I’m just guessing here and I admit that. | |
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| re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? | |
| Posted by: Kjisgroovy 09:06 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? - dramedy 09:00 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| There’s literally no universe where this is a reality | |
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| You're guessing Harris is lying? | |
| Posted by: Ann 09:03 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Isn't he withdrawing women actors (and men and POC and non-POC actors) work weeks by doing this action? - dramedy 09:00 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| Geez, dramedy. | |
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| To make space for female playwright in almost entirely male playwright season | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 07:04 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:56 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: Jeremy O. Harris is withdrawing “Slave Play” from Center Theatre Group’s new season. - kieran 06:26 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| Credit where it's due, O. Harris stands by his convictions. Wonder what kind of wrench this throws into the Broadway return, which seemed predicated on the LA transfer. Meanwhile, my God, how did CTG think they could program that season and no one would notice? That many men/trans/non-cis women is gross. Just across the board gross. |
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| What is the percentage of female playwrights | |
| Posted by: dramedy 07:17 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: To make space for female playwright in almost entirely male playwright season - Singapore/Fling 06:56 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| I would think it isn’t very high—definitely not equal to population of 50%. And I can only think of a few woman (ruhl, Vogel and nottage) that have a body of work to select from for a season. I’ve linked 15 in this article and most I have not seen a play written by them. I’m skeptical and wonder if something else is going on here besides Harris withdrawing his play—which I would think is a breach of contract at this point. |
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| Link | https://www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/news/15-women-playwrights-heard-of-2019_48648.html |
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| re: What is the percentage of female playwrights | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 11:44 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: What is the percentage of female playwrights - dramedy 07:17 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| The list is hardly obscure. I doubt there is any theater lover that has not seen plays by Caryl Churchill, Lynn Nottage, Martyna Majok, Moira Buffini, Lucy Prebble, Jackie Sibblies Drury, Katori Hall, and Timberlake Wertenbaker. If someone is not familiar with their work, I would tend to question how much theater they actually see. | |
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| Please don't defend CTG by smearing women and displaying your own lack of knowledge | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 07:39 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 07:36 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: What is the percentage of female playwrights - dramedy 07:17 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| Well. That is a very reactionary response to the situation, and involves smearing women as bad writers, and also sharing your own ignorance. I didn't expect that from you. The list you link to features a number of British writers that might be unfamiliar to you, but it also includes 4 Pulitzer Prize winning playwrights! Are you really going to stand there and proudly say that you haven't seen plays by Caryl Churchill, Katori Hall, Jackie Siblies Drury, and Matryn Majok and make it their fault that you haven't heard of them?! But sure, let's indulge in this, shall we say lightly misogynistic argument for a moment, and let's agree that there is definitely not equal to 50% of the population female playwrights (which isn't true, there are many, many, many female playwrights and I would not be shocked if there are even more of them than men these days... but I don't know for sure, because I haven't done the study and neither have you). But let's just pretend that you're right, and say it's not 50 percent. Can we at least agree that woman are more than 12.5% of the playwrights in this country? Because CTG is producing 8 plays next season, and only one of them is by a cis-gender woman. Only one. One in eight, or 12.5%. That is indefensible using any form of logic. |
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| re: Please don't defend CTG by smearing women and displaying your own lack of knowledge | |
| Posted by: Thom915 08:21 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
| In reply to: Please don't defend CTG by smearing women and displaying your own lack of knowledge - Singapore/Fling 07:36 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| Could we please include Dominique Morisseau in this list of playwrights? | |
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| Dominique Morisseau | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:21 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Please don't defend CTG by smearing women and displaying your own lack of knowledge - Thom915 08:21 pm EDT 10/06/21 | |
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| Absolutely. I was just referencing the playwrights who were specifically mentioned in the linked article. | |
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| I didn’t smear women—that is your interpretation | |
| Posted by: dramedy 08:48 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: Please don't defend CTG by smearing women and displaying your own lack of knowledge - Singapore/Fling 07:36 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| I would expand but frankly you shut discussions down with your equally offensive rhetoric. | |
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| Eager to learn more | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 09:22 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:07 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: I didn’t smear women—that is your interpretation - dramedy 08:48 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| When you say that not many women write plays ("the percentage isn't very high") and not many of those have a body of work worth producing (you used the words "to select from", so you can quibble with my understanding of your intent, though many women playwrights certainly have many plays written), I'm not sure how else to interpret that other than a put down of female playwrights as being inferior to men. I'm open to having you explain it to us. | |
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| Female playwrights writing or being produced? | |
| Last Edit: Ann 07:28 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| Posted by: Ann 07:27 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: What is the percentage of female playwrights - dramedy 07:17 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| You've heard of Ruhl, Vogel and Nottage because they've been produced. Isn't the issue that female playwrights are not being produced at a fair rate? I’ve linked 15 in this article and most I have not seen a play written by them. Aren't you proving Harris' point? |
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| re: To make space for female playwright in almost entirely male playwright season | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 07:04 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 07:03 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
| In reply to: To make space for female playwright in almost entirely male playwright season - Singapore/Fling 06:56 pm EDT 10/05/21 | |
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| The Broadway return seemed predicated on a Tony win. It’s still a difficult sale, almost every performance on TDF last time, to the end. It may find a new audience, and certainly there’s no more audacious conversation starter in 2021, but the run must have some expert funding to do well this precarious autumn. | |
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