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| Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Posted by: WWriter 04:00 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| Speaking of Jane Lynch! | |
| Link | Why Hollywood's Jewish Women Are Rarely Played by Jewish Actors |
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| Just announced yesterday: Cillian Murphy as Robert Oppenheimer | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:33 am EDT 10/10/21 | |
| In reply to: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - WWriter 04:00 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| Adrian Brody’s a dead ringer, of course... but so Jewy, amirite? | |
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| re: Just announced yesterday: Cillian Murphy as Robert Oppenheimer | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:07 pm EDT 10/10/21 | |
| In reply to: Just announced yesterday: Cillian Murphy as Robert Oppenheimer - MockingbirdGirl 08:33 am EDT 10/10/21 | |
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| but so Jewy, amirite? Weren't the Amirites (well, the Amorites, really) contemporaries of the jews in the Bible? :-) |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 04:39 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - WWriter 04:00 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| At the end of the day, it's called acting. If you do a Moliere play, can you only hire French Catholics? If one does Uncle Vanya can I only hire Russian actors? A white actor from the Bronx has nothing in common with a Russian today, let alone a 19th Century Russian. Alfred Molina wasn't a great Tevye - he was very good - he's Spanish/Italian? What could he know of being Jewish, the customs, the history, the pogroms? But he's an actor. he does reserach. He talks to people. He learns. That's what acting is. Just saying .... |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Posted by: comedywest 11:31 am EDT 10/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - NewtonUK 04:39 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| Right... Tony Kushner (on Amanpour) said it was no concern of his who Andrew Garfield went to bed with at night, only that he could play the part of Prior Walter. and I can't recall too many times Paul Newman played a Jewish character. He always seemed to play Irish or WASPs--and quite convincingly. Ultimately, it's what's onstage or screen that matters to me, not the off stage stuff. |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Last Edit: TheOtherOne 07:30 am EDT 10/09/21 | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 07:18 am EDT 10/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - comedywest 11:31 am EDT 10/08/21 | |
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| Garfield would seem to have three strikes against him in our current climate. Prior is gay, American and a WASP; Garfield is straight, British and Jewish. Newman played a Jew in Exodus, but that might have been it. His performance as the Irish lawyer in search of redemption in The Verdict is widely regarded as his best. I couldn't imagine anyone complaining about his casting over ethnic authenticity. Ditto Jason Robards for his many performances in the plays of Eugene O'Neill, most of which still cast a shadow over others who play the roles. I realize that Sarah Silverman is specifically talking about the misrepresentation of Jewish women in current culture, but it wasn't too long ago that Nathalie Portman played our only Catholic First Lady in an acclaimed film performance, and it wasn't too long before that that Jessica Hecht and Scarlett Johansson played the Italians Beatrice and Catherine in an outstanding Broadway revival of A View From The Bridge (alongside Liev Schreiber, Corey Stoll and Morgan Spector). They were all excellent. What else matters? |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 09:15 pm EDT 10/11/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 09:14 pm EDT 10/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - TheOtherOne 07:18 am EDT 10/09/21 | |
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| Paul Newman was half-Jewish; his father was Jewish. If anyone questions that "half-Jewish" designation, as someone did recently in one of these threads, Groucho Marx told the story of his attempting to go swimming at a country club that he found out was "restricted". He was with his daughter, so he told the guy at the pool, "My daughter is half-Jewish -- so can she go up enough to her knees?" |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Posted by: comedywest 10:32 am EDT 10/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - TheOtherOne 07:18 am EDT 10/09/21 | |
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| Exactly. Nothing else matters. (Although I didn't really buy Cary Grant as French in I Was a Male War Bride....and yet I still l liked it.) |
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| re: "At the end of the day, it's called acting." | |
| Posted by: danr 08:46 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - NewtonUK 04:39 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| At the end of the day, yes, it's acting. But that negates the casting process that comes before it. Much like the Latinx and gay actor struggles as of late, are they even getting considered for roles that are being written for those that match their skin color, religion, or sexual orientation. I'm not saying they must cast from that pool, but they should be given the chance to prove their worth. | |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:10 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - NewtonUK 04:39 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| And that production of “Fiddler” was routinely criticized for not being Jewish enough. There are a lot of questions for us to grapple with in terms of how identity factors into performance and whether there’s a hierarchy of identities to consider when casting, and we’ll each find our own answer, but it’s more complicated than just saying “it’s called acting”. | |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Posted by: Amiens 06:47 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - Singapore/Fling 05:10 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| I don't know if this veers the conversation too off-topic but for me, this argument is somewhat related to the trend of casting sexy young men as classic nerds, as we've seen with Jonathan Groff and now Jeremy Jordan as Seymour in Little Shop...coincidentally also directed by Michael Mayer. Or Felicity Jones and Armie Hammer as the Ginsburgs in that RBG film. Yes, they're all wonderfully talented actors. But I feel we're gradually being deprived of young character actors to play these leading character roles. There's just a genuinely quirky authenticity that's getting lost. Of course, Hollywood has always insisted on glamorized casting with beautiful/handsome stars playing ordinary characters. But I'm sad that more and more, NY theater is following this trend. Everything is getting sanded down to a boring blandness. |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Last Edit: WWriter 07:20 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| Posted by: WWriter 07:19 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - Amiens 06:47 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| I agree. I think there are a few things to be discussed here. The first is that in any particular case, a nonX actor might be excellent playing an X person. That's the art part. Second, there's the matter of employment. If X actors are underemployed, it does seem unfair to give X roles to nonX actors. Third, there is the effect on the audience and the larger world. When does casting nonX performers in X roles start to reflect/model anti-X-ism? It's complicated. |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Posted by: scoot1er 05:25 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - Singapore/Fling 05:10 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| A friend of mine is a very good friend of Alfred Molina. She said he is half Jewish. | |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Posted by: Gregv212 05:47 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - scoot1er 05:25 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| How is he, or anyone, half of a religion? | |
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| re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women | |
| Posted by: scoot1er 07:33 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - Gregv212 05:47 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| When one parent is one religion and the other parent is a different religion. | |
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| I think maybe you should do some reading on the Jewish People/Judaism | |
| Posted by: HadriansMall 05:56 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Time Mag on Non-Jewish Women Playing Jewish Women - Gregv212 05:47 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| Because that comment displays a lack of understanding | |
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| re: I think maybe you should do some reading on the Jewish People/Judaism | |
| Posted by: Gregv212 07:22 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
| In reply to: I think maybe you should do some reading on the Jewish People/Judaism - HadriansMall 05:56 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| Sure. | |
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| re: Will this kill color blind casting? | |
| Posted by: Zelgo 09:14 am EDT 10/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: I think maybe you should do some reading on the Jewish People/Judaism - Gregv212 07:22 pm EDT 10/07/21 | |
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| If only Jews can play Jews; gays, gays; Latinos, Latinos and on and on and on, should a Black person be allowed to play Mama Rose or every other role written for a white person? Why don't we just let people act? |
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| Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 09:19 am EDT 10/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Will this kill color blind casting? - Zelgo 09:14 am EDT 10/08/21 | |
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| Literally no one has said "x can only play x." However, when ethnically appropriate people are consistently passed over for suitable parts, it's fair to ask why that is happening, and if there is something more insidious at play. | |
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| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 01:07 pm EDT 10/08/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 01:04 pm EDT 10/08/21 | |
| In reply to: Do you wanna build a straw man? - MockingbirdGirl 09:19 am EDT 10/08/21 | |
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| I remember reading years ago, I think it might have been Richard Rodgers saying something to the effect that "Jewish folks are writing musicals to be seen by an audience made up of a lot of Jewish people but it can't be cast with Jewish people". Very weird. I don't know if that was something around WWII, though "Oklahoma!" did feature Yiddish theater notable Joseph Buloff as Ali Hakim and Howard Da Silva as Jud. Perhaps Rodgers (or whoever said this) meant as leading men/women? Ethel Merman went out of her way to make sure that people knew that she was born Ethel Zimmermann with two "n"s which is usually German, as opposed to one "n" which is traditionally Jewish (maybe German Jewish). She even (in)famously brought a ham sandwich to a Passover seder hosted by Jule Styne! Vivienne Segal, who was Jewish, had already been a stage star (before WWII with all its antisemitism being brought to the fore), but most other Jewish stage stars were comedians or character people. Lillian Roth was like an earlier day Streisand actually, though her career was sidelined by her alcoholism; interesting, that she would star in "I Can Get It For You Wholesale" with Streisand as breakout supporting player. Catch Roth as a young lady in the wonderful 1929 "The Love Parade" playing the secondary couple opposite original "Me and My Girl" star Lupino Lane -- she had a big voice, big, engaging personality and she was both funny and very cute and sexy. | |
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| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Zelgo 11:55 am EDT 10/08/21 | |
| In reply to: Do you wanna build a straw man? - MockingbirdGirl 09:19 am EDT 10/08/21 | |
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| Not a straw man at all--but a very apt criticism. Are Jewish actors being systematically passed over like Blacks, Latinos, Asians, and LGBT are? Are they not getting any roles because they are Jewish? Should James Caan and Sarah Paulson, both Jewish actors who have made careers playing non-Jews, have given up their roles to actors who were more ethnically appropriate? Again, if directors must cast an actor who is the exact ethnic and sexual match of the character, considering most characters are white and straight, how will this play out? Let actors be actors. Certainly, there are specific ethnic and sexual groups who historically have not been chosen for roles because of who they are. They have even been passed over ethnically appropriate roles. Jewish actors do not suffer this same discrimination. |
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| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: showtunesoprano 12:32 pm EDT 10/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Zelgo 11:55 am EDT 10/08/21 | |
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| I do not believe that Sarah Paulson is Jewish. Her wikipedia does not mention it, and a general Google search returned no such fact. Are you sure about that? Interesting, though, that you bring her up. Because while she is the appropriate ethnicity for Linda Tripp (Impeachment, and American Crime Story, currently airing on FX), she is not the appropriate size. But it's not the actor's responsibility to take or not take roles they are not appropriate for, it's the director's/producer's responsibility to be aware of such issues and cast them appropriately. So I lay the blame here with Ryan Murphy, not Paulson. |
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| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Zelgo 04:45 pm EDT 10/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - showtunesoprano 12:32 pm EDT 10/08/21 | |
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| So the actor must be every way, shape, and form like the character he/she is playing? If not, what characteristics must be the same and what doesn't have to be? At some point, these requirements get ridiculous. Again, they are actors. The whole point of acting is to be what you are not. |
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| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 05:13 pm EDT 10/12/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 05:10 pm EDT 10/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Zelgo 04:45 pm EDT 10/12/21 | |
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| Parts are sometimes lost because you look like the former boyfriend/girlfriend that one of the writers or someone in casting dated who was the cause of a bad breakup. Or they just don't like their looks or they're too good a singer and will overshadow the star, etc. All sorts of stuff happens in casting. It's all subjective. Maria Callas, for example, or any big star or actor at any point in their career, has (or had) a share of detractors as well as fans. | |
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