Threaded Order Chronological Order
| Is HAMILTON uncool? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 08:56 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| The author of this sprawling article says so. What do you think? | |
| Link | Vox article |
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| re: Is HAMILTON uncool? | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 02:39 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 02:26 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: Is HAMILTON uncool? - KingSpeed 08:56 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| I think the problem is that the writer uses terms uncritically like "pop culture" and "neoliberalism" as if they have the same meaning they had yesterday as they do today. Neoliberalism as it applies to the Biden administration vs. the Clintons is still being defined. Trump certainly wasn't neoliberal but it's unclear whether the Biden administration is a turning away from neoliberalism into something else. Even if the Biden administration tries to move beyond neoliberalism in all good faith it might not be able to. It's also unclear at the moment whether the ways in which racial and gender identity were subsumed under neoliberalism in the past isn't compatible with the new idea of representation and the centering of non-white, non cis-male experience. Neoliberalism might prove to be very adaptable to a more radical idea of identity. The writer mentions the conversation between the neoliberal Hillary Clinton worshiping mother in "The White Lotus" and her critical-of-neoliberalism daughter but tellingly edits out the mother's rejoinder to her daughter. It runs something like this and I paraphrase: "But you aren't talking about socialism, you're talking about becoming the new bosses". |
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| re: Is HAMILTON uncool? | |
| Posted by: Ncassidine 06:41 am EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: Is HAMILTON uncool? - KingSpeed 08:56 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| This article makes some interesting points. I don't know about the show itself being uncool, but I think that there are shows that are defining "of a time" and Hamilton was everywhere in 2015/16. For those folks who were wrapped up in the election outcome and the ways that Hamilton (the show) interacted with modern politics back then, it's perfectly normal and healthy to have moved on. | |
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| Yes, if you're in the group that rolls their eyes and thinks it's uncool | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:20 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| In reply to: Is HAMILTON uncool? - KingSpeed 08:56 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| Not that sprawling, and nothing revolutionary. The thesis is sound, and there is definitely a Hamilton backlash in the culture these days.... but more, I think the article shows the scathing contempt that Gen Z have for anyone above the age of, shall we say 35? 30? To them, we are all uncool, and often times I find the Gen Z idea of "cool" to be tragically uncool, but then isn't that how most middle aged folks feel about teenagers and twentysomethings? | |
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| re: Yes, if you're in the group that rolls their eyes and thinks it's uncool | |
| Posted by: Delvino 07:49 am EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: Yes, if you're in the group that rolls their eyes and thinks it's uncool - Singapore/Fling 10:20 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| An equally interesting question: Is a film decidedly of the moment (in the awards season spotlight) Tick, Tick ... Boom cool to the demographic it portrays. Had this convo with a couple of 30-35ish folk, non musical theater types, who were indifferent. To be 30 in 1990 doesn't mean much to them. They don't seem themselves in the drama. It's the rest of us who are more likely to find it cool, its downtown nostalgia and chic Struggling Artist trappings. They didn't trash talk the movie, just didn't relate. Consider this a footnote to the West Side Story "bomb" headlines yesterday. | |
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| Stay cool, Ham | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 07:59 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Yes, if you're in the group that rolls their eyes and thinks it's uncool - Delvino 07:49 am EST 12/28/21 | |
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| I think "Tick, Tick... Boom" is also a show that is going to appeal more to people in their 20s than in their 30s... as someone in my 40s, I didn't make it past the beginning of the film, because I just couldn't get behind Jonathan Larson's "problem" of being 29 and not having gotten a hetero-normative life with children and a good salary. Yet, that was absolutely the kind of thing I would have gobbled up at, say, 25. But yes, I think you're speaking to what I was attempting to point in my first post: "cool" is entirely subjective, so debating whether "Hamilton" is cool or not partly involves identifying who is doing the deciding... and also, it'd be silly to expect something that was cool in 2015/16 to still be cool in 2021... that's just not how the cool cycle works (and anything that reaches Peak Cool like Hamilton did in 2016 will inevitably fall out of favor with the next generation). But the show is a masterpiece regardless of whether it's cool, and it's still selling incredibly well, being one of the few shows to have emerged from the pandemic a hotter and more expensive ticket than when it shut down in 2019 - so it's popular, but that isn't always the same thing as cool. |
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| re: Stay cool, Ham | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:28 am EST 12/29/21 | |
| In reply to: Stay cool, Ham - Singapore/Fling 07:59 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| You missed a good movie. | |
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| re: Yes, if you're in the group that rolls their eyes and thinks it's uncool | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 10:26 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| In reply to: Yes, if you're in the group that rolls their eyes and thinks it's uncool - Singapore/Fling 10:20 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| ...talk about uncool......... | |
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| re: Is HAMILTON uncool? | |
| Posted by: student_rush 09:59 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| In reply to: Is HAMILTON uncool? - KingSpeed 08:56 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| I bet it’s pretty cool to its investors, The Public Theatre, and the myriad artists employed across the various companies. | |
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| re: Is HAMILTON uncool? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:02 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is HAMILTON uncool? - student_rush 09:59 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| The "author" mentions something about "the rapid fall of Hamilton." I wasn't aware there was a fall, let alone a rapid one. The show is still quite successful, yes? | |
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| Depends who your arbiter of cool is. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:45 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| In reply to: Is HAMILTON uncool? - KingSpeed 08:56 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| If it is Constance Grady then sure. | |
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| re: Depends who your arbiter of cool is. | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 09:53 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:53 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| In reply to: Depends who your arbiter of cool is. - ryhog 09:45 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| I think Constance Grady needs to tone it down a bit. | |
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| re: Is HAMILTON uncool? | |
| Posted by: seenenuf 09:07 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| In reply to: Is HAMILTON uncool? - KingSpeed 08:56 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| It was cringe worthy from day one at the Public. Smarmy and then some. May it Rest In Peace. |
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| re: Is HAMILTON uncool? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 09:52 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:51 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is HAMILTON uncool? - seenenuf 09:07 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| It was cringe worthy [sic] from day one at the Public. Smarmy and then some. May it Rest In Peace.[sic] I don't and can't share your opinions, but -- THIS ARTICLE is cringeworthy from paragraph one. Smarmy and then some. I also hate the agenda bold-facing. A good writer should be able to get their point across without hitting you over the head with their key gripes multiple times per page. It's annoying and obnoxious to read, and certainly doesn't help her case. Seems to me that Vox is straining their voice. May they get Vocal Rest in Peace. |
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| re: Is HAMILTON uncool? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:15 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is HAMILTON uncool? - Chromolume 09:51 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| The bold-facing is part of the agenda, but it's also how they do links, and all of those phrases are clickable. | |
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| re: Is HAMILTON uncool? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:25 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is HAMILTON uncool? - Singapore/Fling 10:15 pm EST 12/27/21 | |
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| Ha! I should have realized that. Thanks. | |
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