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| re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 01:02 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 01:01 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - dramedy 12:52 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| I know you don't mean it, but that kind of goes against all those nice things people, including Hugh Jackman himself, are saying about understudies going on and saving the show. Yes, I know he's the star and a big reason for sales, though frankly, "The Music Man" is a great enough show worth seeing with a capable cast -- though I don't think any show is at those prices, even with Hugh Jackman. But people who want refunds will get them, as he is above the title and that's usual Broadway policy. | |
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| re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 05:25 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 05:12 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - PlayWiz 01:01 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| I don't think it's just about the absence of a huge star who is why the majority of people are buying tickets... it's the insane prices they are charging specifically because of that. Yes a good production of Music Man with a good cast is always worth seeing, for reasonable price. But let's also understand the reality of understudies. For every understudy who is *also* perfect casting and blows you away and takes away regret that you missed the normally cast actor... there are 3 who are disappointments for any number of reasons (usually having nothing to do with their ability) -- one main reason is the shows can't afford an understudy for each role, so they hire people who could in theory cover 2-4 roles... and there's just no way those people are perfectly cast for all, let alone even any, of those roles. Harold Hill carries the show to an extent. It can't just be played by anyone. This kind of experience just happened to me a month ago, I went to see Hadestown and learned first hand just how essential the specific presence and qualities of Andre deShields's talents are and what he brings... because the understudy on for him, supremely talented and capable as he was, just absolutely was not up to filling Andre's shoes. And the experience of the show really did suffer because of it. No disrespect to the talent and skill of the understudy nor to the enormous challenge it is to be able to learn and execute multiple roles, ready to go on in any of them any given day with little notice (and sometimes no rehearsal at all)... but that doesn't change what is happening for the audience experience especially for a lead role and especially for one that the show is built around AND the pricing of tickets is built around. I also saw an understudy for Val Jean in Les Miz... and I'm sorry, he just was not good enough. He was way too young and didn't have the acting chops at all, and his voice was good but not insane, and it didn't make up for what was lost otherwise. That was not a show built on a star as Val Jean... but it still messed up the entire experience for me. Perhaps he was the best they could get to be an understudy who was technically ok to play multiple big male roles, and maybe he only played the Priest if no one was out. I don't know. But I do know it's extremely unlikely he'd have been straight up cast as Val Jean on broadway at that point... and when you're seeing a broadway show and an understudy is on for a lead, you want to feel like you're at least seeing someone who would have been cast in that role. I don't blame this actor, I blame the producers. I'd much rather see an understudy for Marian than for Harold. And I'd much rather see an understudy for Orpheus than for Hermes. I'd rather see one for Buddy than for Sally, and rather see one for Fiyero than for Glinda. This does not mean, again, that you don't *often* get understudies or swings who are well cast in the role they're stepping in for... this happens all the time. And when it's something like a Marie Christine, or Max Bialystock, or Evita, or Hamilton, or Caroline... they hire specifically with this in mind, and in some cases you're lucky to be seeing the understudy or alternate (i am VERY glad I first experienced Hamilton with Javier on as Hamilton rather than LMM, I think I liked the show way more because of it). And sometimes it was good enough but you come out knowing the difference between a talented cast member capable of doing the role vs a star. And if you paid for a star, if the production was built for or around a star, there's no denying that. And sometimes an understudy IS a star they just haven't been discovered yet, and how thrilling is that to see before the world knows. (And in rarer cases, sometimes a star is cast in a role that didn't need a "star", it needed someone who could actually play the role and sing the role as written, and then you get a chance to see the role played as intended rather than through the filter of a massive and possibly limited ability of the "star" they cast to sell tickets). I know this is not the time to say anything that isn't glowing about understudies and swings, and trust me I don't mean it that way. And I agree they are heroes of the cast who are the backbone of the broadway community, and they also should be compensated way more than they are for what they're asked to learn and do, and the stress of going into the situation. But the reality of the common practice of hiring people to play a smaller role and then must cover multiple different roles... is that the probability that they're a perfect replacement for ALL the roles they have to be ready to step into is not great. So it can be a roll of the dice. But hey, even when they are not ideal for the role they're stepping into... it's better than the show being cancelled. But the bigger point is that regardless of how good or perfect the understudy/swing may or may not be, audiences *paying star prices to see a star* should not be asked to see it without that star without either a refund or an option to have the star-priced ticket switched to a normal-priced ticket (they may well want to still see the show that day without the star, but they shouldn't be paying the same price). And luckily, they do at least have the full refund or date exchange option, as long as they star is above the title. |
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| re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) | |
| Posted by: jo 08:05 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - Chazwaza 05:12 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| Good points! It is even more distressing at this time -- not just to see a possible less-than satisfactory performance in general -- but one has to do it, with the threat of getting infected yourself inside the theatre, given that a vaccination certificate does not fully insure safety from an infection yourself. Maybe a general hiatus for Broadway during deep winter should be considered? |
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| re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:18 am EST 12/30/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - jo 08:05 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| I just worry if we close now, it’ll be years til we return. Producers would think twice about reopening again. | |
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| re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) | |
| Last Edit: writerkev 05:30 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| Posted by: writerkev 05:29 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - Chazwaza 05:12 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| I appreciate you bending backwards not to offend, and I agree with everything you say here. The fact is, it’s often a disappointment to get an understudy for a number of reasons. Wonderful that they’ve been keeping Broadway afloat the past few weeks, but honestly, most every time I’ve seen an understudy it’s been a capable performer, but I can usually tell the special something is missing. Sometimes it might be simply a matter of not enough rehearsal time; sometimes it’s other matters, as you suggest. I imagine many people will seek refunds for their obscenely expensive “Music Man” tickets during Jackman’s absence, and that will make them available at a more reasonable price for that week. |
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| re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:27 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - writerkev 05:29 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| Yes. There is *more often than not* an undeniable chemistry with the scene partners, and nuance to the performance, that is achieved through weeks of rehearsing from page to stage with the other actors under the direction of the director... which is often impossible to have otherwise. It doesn't mean the performance won't be worthwhile or thrilling or possibly bring its own nuance and chemistry... but that is a less common result of alchemy. This is just part of the reality of the understudy and the process of putting them into the role they're covering rather than what they were cast to play normally and rehearsed for. |
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| Will Sutton return on 1.2? | |
| Posted by: wendy7 01:59 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - PlayWiz 01:01 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| Nmi | |
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| re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:22 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - PlayWiz 01:01 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| My head immediately went to the understudies when I saw they were planning to start back up without him. Another good reason to do it is that the production is in its infancy and needs all of the performances it can get before opening. So think of it as a few extra days of rehearsal (including for the understudies who can def use it at this point) with a paying audience of whatever size and price. This assumes that they are in fact able to proceed per this plan. | |
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| perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 05:15 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - ryhog 01:22 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| Half of $700 doesn't cut it. Maybe they should offer tickets for $125 for orchestra and front mezz and $75 for rear and balcony for the "rehearsal" shows when many of the cast are unrehearsed understudies and the huge star(s) in the lead roles (above the title) are out. But I also think previews should be required to be sold at at least 1/3 discount. If you're asking an audience to watch what is essentially a great dress rehearsal, as part of the process of getting the show ready to be frozen and open... if the audience is paying for a less finalized show than what critics get, and what audiences seeing it after opening, are getting, then they shouldn't be asked to pay the same price as audiences getting the post-opening frozen fully formed show are paying. |
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| As always*, the price of tickets will be dictated by what folks are willing to pay. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:06 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices - Chazwaza 05:15 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| If people are not willing to pay today's ask, then they will be sold at discounts that sell tickets. It has always been thus. *Yes I acknowledge that there are irrational exceptions, like what people have been saying about Ain't Too Proud's pricing "strategy." |
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| re: As always*, the price of tickets will be dictated by what folks are willing to pay. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:34 am EST 12/30/21 | |
| In reply to: As always*, the price of tickets will be dictated by what folks are willing to pay. - ryhog 08:06 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| Exactly. | |
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| re: perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 05:38 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices - Chazwaza 05:15 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| I hear you but they’re not being asked to pay full price for previews. No one is forcing people to go to previews. If you don’t want to see a preview, go to a regular performance. | |
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| "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day | |
| Posted by: champagnesalesman 11:17 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices - KingSpeed 05:38 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| As late as the 80's...not sure when it stopped...it was a way to get people to see musicals still working their kinks out...I agree many ignorant tourists don't even know the difference or that previews mean "not yet reviewed". Back then shows changed alot in previews but nowadays many shows seem to be frozen and unchanged from multiple workshops to opening night | |
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| re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 11:29 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day - champagnesalesman 11:17 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| And, most importantly, even if they DO understand what "preview" means... many people don't have an option. They can see it when they can see it, either for when they're in town/when it's running (previews or not), or their life schedule. If it happens to be a "preview", ah well... hopefully it represents the show that will open well, because it's the one and only time the vast majority of the audience seeing it in previews will get to see it... and I'd bet the vast majority of people seeing it in previews aren't picking those dates because they want to see it as a work in progress (or final stages of progress) and intend to see it again after opening. I think they started charging full price for previews because they can get away with it. |
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| re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:29 am EST 12/30/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day - Chazwaza 11:29 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| Many people don’t have an option? What on earth are you talking about? | |
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| re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 04:08 am EST 12/30/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day - KingSpeed 03:29 am EST 12/30/21 | |
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| Truly, I don't know what you don't understand. | |
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| re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day | |
| Posted by: sirpupnyc 11:51 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day - Chazwaza 11:29 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| Producers would probably also argue that it doesn't cost them any less to put on a preview than a post-opening performance. (But still, charging less for an unfinished product makes sense.) There are probably difficulties of perception and word of mouth. They don't want preview audiences to feel they're getting an inferior experience. And if it's cheaper, it must be, right? Maybe bargain-hunters are more likely to talk down a bad preview. Certainly no show wants to undercut its arrival as the greatest thing ever from day one. Theatre people would understand the nuance, but we're not the majority of ticket buyers. (And we do love both a bargain and talking about what we saw.) The way to go would be to just do it and not call attention to it, and what producer (or press/marketing/ad agency) could manage to keep their mouth shut like that? |
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| re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:32 am EST 12/30/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day - sirpupnyc 11:51 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| The majority of theatergoers know how it works because the majority of them go to theater all the time. Us fans at ATC aren’t special. | |
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| re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:19 am EST 12/29/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day - sirpupnyc 11:51 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| following up on what I wrote above, it is important to understand that many previews ARE discounted, often quite substantially (not to mention TKTS, TDF, paper, etc.) But if people want to pay extraordinary amounts to see Hugh, that's on them, no? And as I said, the prices for the understudy shows will come a tumblin' down. | |
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| re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:33 am EST 12/30/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day - ryhog 12:19 am EST 12/29/21 | |
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| I was going to say that too. There are tons of discounts when a show starts previews. | |
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| re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day | |
| Posted by: champagnesalesman 11:47 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: "LOW PRICE PREVIEWS" used to be the norm back in the day - Chazwaza 11:29 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| I think alot more locals attended theatre regularly back then before it became mostly tourists with bad taste and big pockets..and you are SO right...they aren't choosing to see MUSIC MAN two months before opening...it's cause they are here now. I wonder if Sutton does play opposite the understudy for 4 shows will that mean less refunds? I believe a fair amt of people stayed to see Linda Mugelston do the one perf Midler missed in DOLLY...but then I think they were already there and it was too late to see anything else | |
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| re: perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:40 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:32 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices - KingSpeed 05:38 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| This has always been an utterly absurd reply to this issue, and i think willfully ignorant of how most people buy tickets and observe the timeline of a broadway engagement. Most ticket buyers have no idea what a "preview" means, or that they're buying tickets for it. And it is barely advertised as that. I think to ticket buyers who aren't in the know, if the show is running then it is running. It is not the responsibility of the buyer to know that they're getting a lesser product for the same price, it's the responsibility of the seller (the producer) to CHARGE LESS for the lesser version of the product. I don't think there's any argument that would be convincing that this isn't true and fair. The only reason this isn't common practice is because they can get away with not doing it - the market doesn't demand it, I think largely because there's no way for that to happen (for the audiences to demand this in any way that would result in a change). It is left to producers to treat the customer fairly, and at their own financial hit, and they do not chose to do this. And I'm not sure what you mean, that they're not being asked to pay full price for previews. They absolutely are. I'm not aware of any common practice these days of charging less for tickets during previews. They may *raise* prices after rave reviews come out when it opens, or raise them when it because a hot ticket. But where are the shows that charge $75 for previews at $125 for post-opening? Or whatever the ratio might be. Also, previews are often manipulated... sometimes they wait for the "official" opening much longer than they might. And also, many people don't have the option to just go to a "regular" performance. Not everyone is in town or available for a performance after the "opening". Such a silly assumption to make. |
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| re: perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 03:26 am EST 12/30/21 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:23 am EST 12/30/21 | |
| In reply to: re: perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices - Chazwaza 06:32 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| If you want to see the show after it opens, see it after it opens. Don’t tell me the ticket buyers are stupid but you’re the smart one. And if you don’t live in NYC, you can choose when to visit. People don’t accidentally end up in NYC. It costs money to get in. Either flight into Queens or $18 toll at Lincoln Tunnel and GW Bridge. | |
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| re: perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 04:08 am EST 12/30/21 | |
| In reply to: re: perhaps the producers should offer half price tickets for these "extra rehearsals" ... or even just normal non-star bway prices - KingSpeed 03:23 am EST 12/30/21 | |
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| You're just wrong here, on every point, as far as my experience of reality is concerned. It's laughable to me that you think these are answers. But there's absolutely no earthly reason we need to continue discussing this. |
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| re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) | |
| Posted by: Delvino 04:53 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - ryhog 01:22 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| Giving the company more time on the Winter Garden stage is a legitimate reason to go up sooner. If prices normalize to fill seats - presuming the ticket holders seek refunds - I’m in. I’d love to see the show pull together around a Jackman replacement. A lot of us city adjacent might feel that way. | |
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| re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) | |
| Posted by: Ncassidine 01:04 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - PlayWiz 01:01 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| I don't have a specific interest in seeing Jackman, and would be happy to see his understudy. | |
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| re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) | |
| Posted by: Ijest22 02:48 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Hugh will be back in the show 1/6 (COVID) - Ncassidine 01:04 pm EST 12/28/21 | |
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| Presumably not, though, for the $450 per ticket I had paid to see Hugh Jackman. I wouldn’t mind going to see his stand-in and Sutton, but I think it would have to be less than half that cost. | |
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