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| re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 01:51 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:41 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? - BroadwayTonyJ 05:54 am EST 01/05/22 | |
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| I don't understand what "lose their ass" means. And so I'm not sure at all what it is I don't understand that has you so baffled. What would happen to a major theater if they were to produce Royal Family? Or a small theater if they did Little Miss Sunshine? Or Muscle? or Romance even? Are these shows even available to produce? I assume Little Miss Sunshine is but I wouldn't be surprised if the other 3 are not. I'm as much asking how an accomplished, acclaimed writer has written scores to FOUR other musicals that were produced at one point and nothing has been seen or heard of them since (other than the two major mountings of LMS that made no splash and weren't even a hot ticket). I'm also asking because, as I said, I don't know these shows, I didn't get to see any of them and haven't heard the scores to any of them. Of course it's very possible that none of them were very good or memorable, and that he's written 8 shows and only 4 of them are worthwhile. I'd kill for that track record. Doing new works or unknown old works from majorly beloved and acclaimed writers is absolutely in the wheelhouse and abilities of many non-profit theaters. They do not have to appeal to a mass audience. It really is a case by case basic for every theater around the country that is interested in producing musicals and who their subscribers are, what they like/expect/buy tickets to, what the larger community of potential ticket buyers is, and how small a budget they could get away with putting on a show for. "From the creators of Into the Woods and Spelling Bee" is certainly something a theater could say to help sell tickets to Muscle. But also notable theater actors love Finn's work, and other notable writers like him... that's another way to do it. A lot of musicals find a life. Just because these shows haven't had life doesn't mean it's insane or ignorant to wonder why, given the names involved. |
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| re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? | |
| Posted by: ashleylm 06:26 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? - Chazwaza 01:41 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| I saw Little Miss Sunshine ... in my opinion (the only one I have), it was not very good. I was not excited, moved to laughter or tears, thrilled, or engaged. Not one song stuck with me in any way afterward (and they don't have to be catchy ... I can say "boy, that Act One closer sure was beautiful" even if I don't remember how it went). It was just there. I remember the theatre and where I was sitting far more than any element of the production. |
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| re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:32 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:31 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? - ashleylm 06:26 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| That's so sad, and sounds sadly right given the life it's had. Though I am baffled as to why 2nd Stage was willing to mount it, with all the costs that go with it, when it was a dud at La Jolla. I had very little interest in seeing a musical of that movie done. That being said, I would have gone to see it had I been in NYC and was able, or San Diego, while it was running. Actually I wasn't aware of it being in San Diego until it was too late. |
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| re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 03:51 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? - Chazwaza 01:41 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| I think you’re severely underestimating how much non-profit theaters are dependent upon attracting a mass audience in order to sell tickets, get positive press, and raise money, as well as how hard it can be to market a show and get butts in seats. Slapping “Into the Woods and Spelling Bee” on a poster might sell one performance’s worth of tickets. | |
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| re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 03:57 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? - Singapore/Fling 03:51 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| okay, so show me some programming. Help me understand why one play or musical the audiences likely haven't heard of is gonna sell more than another? Other than "straight from broadway" ... or winner of name brand awards recently... what sells? |
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| re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:46 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? - Chazwaza 03:57 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| It will vary by company and market, but broadly speaking: subject matter, community engagement, name recognition, track record of achievement, and cultural importance. Ideally, a theater is producing a show their audiences already want to see, because it made a splash in New York, or something the theater knows they can tie into their audience’s lives. | |
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| re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:19 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:16 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? - Singapore/Fling 05:46 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| I could point to a hundred small theaters and more minor regional theaters where community engagement (specific to that community) and cultural importance does not at all seem to be part of the criteria. And for quite a lot of theater "community engagement" is basically just letting the community know they do plays and musicals worth seeing. And is this part of the thread all to try to make a convincing argument that NO theater in America would meet with anything but failure, empty seats, and financial ruination if they were to produce a William Finn musical? I mean... trust and believe, most people in "the community" have never heard of Falsettos or A New Brain either, and probably not Spelling Bee. Based on art work and subject matter, some people might want to see Spelling Bee and some might want to see Elegies... it's hard to say. In one thread we can say there's no need to justify reviving King & I and My Fair Lady, and in another we're claiming no theater could ever put on a Finn musical let alone one that doesn't have a googleable track record. So are we saying that amateur and regional theaters ONLY produce actually famous works? It's just not true. Maybe I've lost the bead on this thread but I'm not sure what the point that's being made is or what it's based on. The criteria you mention... unless they have to achieve ALL of the criteria, could be said of literally any play or musical depending on the community or talent attached (and attached talent rarely plays into it because unless you're a MAJOR theater you do not have performers with recognition almost ever). |
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| re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 07:02 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? - Chazwaza 06:16 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| I don’t quite follow your logic train: this thread was about why theaters wouldn’t produce four obscure musicals by William Finn, not why they wouldn’t produce *any* of them. Somehow, the goal posts moved. Of the shows he’s written, I would wager “Spelling Bee” gets done a lot. First off, it probably has the strongest name recognition to a general theater audience. It can be billed as “The Tony-winning Broadway hit”, it is a fun comedy, it has audience interaction, and it tells a heartwarming story of family. That ticks so many boxes. Then “Falsettos” is more niche, but it also won some Tonys, can be sold as a family story, a Jewish story, a gay story, and an AIDS story. The recent revival probably helped get it back in people’s consciousness, which could also make it an easier sell (though not an easy one) for the next five years. “A New Brain” might be sticky enough from the two cast albums to make it sellable to a more in-the-know theater crowd, and it also provides good roles to a variety of performers who may be local theater “celebrities”. I don’t know if it has the same hook as the other two, partly because the story isn’t as strong, but you could probably sell enough tickets to make it work. The other factor I left out is word of mouth. These shows could all generate good word of mouth, whereas the other Finn shows probably wouldn’t. They might excite some truly adventurous aficionados, but that won’t sell a run. |
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| re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 03:15 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: what's become of all the lesser known/newer William Finn musicals? - Chazwaza 01:41 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| I talk to the artistic directors of theaters (mostly) in Chicago and (on occasion) in New York all the time. I have even discussed some of the shows mentioned in this thread with them. I know what they tell me and it isn't the same as what you are saying. "Lose their ass" means losing so much money that their viability as an active theater is threatened. I obviously cannot mention names on a message board. If you want to continue this conversation further, feel free to e-mail me at anthonyjanicki@att.net -- I can get more specific on private e-mail. |
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