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| I’m sorry… | |
| Last Edit: ShowGoer 02:21 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| Posted by: ShowGoer 02:20 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: GO SEE Flying Over Sunset!! Only 11 days left... don't miss it! - Chazwaza 01:03 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| I don’t have any interest in kicking a show when it’s done, and I appreciate your enthusiasm… That said, so as to not give the impression that the naysayers are some kind of minority opinion, but to give this thread a little constructive balance, I disagree, to the point where I’d say this is far and away – I don’t want to use the word “worst” (especially since LCT generally has an exceptionally high bar for quality) – so instead I’ll say, easily the weakest show that Lincoln Center Theater has produced in over a quarter century. (Yes, I’m including “Women on the Verge”, “The Great Society”, “A Free Man of Color”, “Nantucket Sleigh Ride” and all the rest; I’ve seen each and every one.) To my mind, you have to go back to a misbegotten revival of “The Little Foxes” and a shockingly inert John Guare play called “Four Baboons Adoring the Sun” – both in the 1990s, both oddly and unfortunately starring the amazing Stockard Channing – to find the only 2 shows in the last 30 years that LCT has produced which I’ve enjoyed less. I still agree with the spirit of what you wrote. I think it’s important for people to make up their own minds about polarizing works of art. Were we not still in a pandemic if wholeheartedly say absolutely it shouldn’t be missed. As things now stand, I’m afraid I’d only say, if you have no concerns or qualms about attending theater right now, by all means go (and if on the other hand you feel like it’s a risk to go out right now, or you’re being pickier and choosier about what you see than usual, then this wouldn’t be the one I’d recommend taking a chance on.) |
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| re: I’m sorry… | |
| Posted by: Jackson 03:20 pm EST 01/06/22 | |
| In reply to: I’m sorry… - ShowGoer 02:20 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| Do you remember the LCT clinker, "Sex and Longing" with Sigourney Weaver? That was truly awful! J |
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| re: Four Baboons | |
| Last Edit: PaulGrin 08:24 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| Posted by: PaulGrin 08:22 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: I’m sorry… - ShowGoer 02:20 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| I've been a Lincoln Center subscriber for many years and have seen all the shows you've mentioned. I remember coming out of the theatre with a friend after seeing "Four Baboons" and turning to her and saying that they should change the name of the play to "Four Baboons Are Boring the Sun." I hardly ever walk out of a show but when intermission came my friends and I couldn't wait to escape "Free Man of Color." When the intermission of "Flying Over Sunset" came the couple sitting next to me got up and one of them turned to me and said, "We're leaving. This is the worst musical I've ever seen." I replied, "Have you seen In My Life?" Her response was "I guess you must like Sondheim." I tried to engage them more and asked them just what makes it the worst musical they've seen. The only other thing she said was that the actor playing Cary Grant doesn't even sound like him. I said, "Well, he dances better than Cary Grant." She was not amused. I'm glad I saw "Flying Over Sunset." The performances were first rate and I loved the score. I'm even more in love with Carmen Cusack, if that's possible. The visuals and stagecraft were fantastic. Yes, it's not everyone's cup of tea but it's interesting and different. The friend I went with thought it was one of the most original musicals she's seen. I look forward to purchasing the cast recording because it's a score I'd like to revisit. | |
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| re: Four Baboons | |
| Posted by: den 09:15 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Four Baboons - PaulGrin 08:22 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| When my wife and I left ‘Sunset,’ she said she didn’t like it much but she was glad we saw it, and I agreed. The show does not work, and the second act essentially repeats the first, but there is much to admire here — the score, the performers, the design. It’s a worthy and honorable failure. Full disclosure: I too have been an LCT for many years, and strangely, I find that I’ve enjoyed many of the shows that have been critically drubbed. I’m not saying they’re great shows, but I enjoyed and am glad I saw ‘Women on the Verge..’, ‘A Free Man of Color,’ ‘Nantucket Sleigh Ride,’ and even ‘Four Baboons…’ The only LCT show I truly detested was ‘The Frogs’ … That was an unmitigated disaster to my mind. And, of course, when LCT hits a home run, as it often does, well, it’s great to be a member. But I admire LCT’s willingness to take a chance on a new, original musical, even as they produce sumptuous revivals that must help to sustain the operation. I wish ‘Flying Over Sunset’ had been able to complete its scheduled run because despite its inarguable shortcomings, I think it deserved to. |
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| there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 02:28 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 02:26 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: I’m sorry… - ShowGoer 02:20 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| One is a masterwork and one isn't. But I think if you are interested in musicals, these two productions are the ones you must see and will not have a chance to see again after this month. Caroline is a masterwork getting a staging I don't entirely love, and Flying is not a masterwork and is getting a production I think we'll never see rivaled. And both will be gone in a couple weeks. Also, for whatever it's worth... I don't know if you're counting LCT productions at the Mitzi, but I found both Happiness and The Glorious Ones to be lesser musicals and FAR more excruciating to sit through. |
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| re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change | |
| Last Edit: ShowGoer 04:17 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| Posted by: ShowGoer 04:15 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change - Chazwaza 02:26 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| Agree completely on your first 2 paragraphs, aside from the fact that Caroline, getting a Broadway revival less than 20 years after its premier, is far likelier too receive additional further major revivals than Flying Over Sunset is. And for what it’s worth - yes, I enjoyed both of the shows you mention much more. They each, importantly, had a more consistent tone, not to mention more stakes and more conflict. And last but not least, definitely superior scores; even second-rate Ahrens & Flaherty (throw in LCT’s Dessa Rose and My Favorite Year while you’re at it) or Frankel-Korie (throw in Broadway’s War Paint and off-Broadway’s “Far From Heaven”while you’re at it) is far better than the oddly anesthetizing Kitt-Korie score for “Sunset”. |
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| re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 04:46 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 04:44 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change - ShowGoer 04:15 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| I think Caroline will be done in opera houses more in the next decade, and I think more amateur companies and colleges will do it. Flying Over Sunset is an absolutely perfect musical for inventive directors to do in colleges (student directors hopefully)... small cast, interesting premise, drug use, and fertile ground for inventive staging in a safe setting where failure at the box office isn't an issue... plus wonderful juicy roles for student performers, but also manageable in what they require. I found the score to Happiness extremely disappointing and mediocre. I found The Glorious Ones down right annoying, and I'm a big A&H fan. Both scores are mediocre on a level Dessa Rose couldn't even dream of being. And I'm sorry, but I think Dessa Rose is easily in their top 3 scores. It is hardly second-rate Ahrens & Flaherty. Ragtime, Dessa Rose and Once On This Island -- their top 3 achievements. A distant 4th is probably A Man of No Importance, followed by Seussical, then My Favorite Year (or maybe switch the last two)? I also think that as beautiful as OOTI, Dessa Rose is a much more mature score but also achingly beautiful and dynamic. One of the most underrated scores of the last few decades. I also think War Paint is WAY better as a score and show than Happiness -- Far From Heaven though was boring, unimaginative and stale, which is heartbreaking because I can't think of a songwriting team more perfectly suited to adapt that movie. Maybe Richard Greenberg as the bookwriter was the wrong choice, it's possible Doug Wright could have brought more to it. Especially after such a quality and interesting collaboration with F&K on Grey Gardens, |
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| re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:39 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change - Chazwaza 04:44 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| Hopefully, directors in college are being encouraged to learn how to tell stories, rather than create compelling stage pictures; based on what we’ve heard so far, “Flying over Sunset” seems like a bad choice to fulfill that educational criteria. | |
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| re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:20 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:09 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change - Singapore/Fling 05:39 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| I'm not sure why you're saying this not having seen it as a reply to someone who has (and who was a college theater directing student, for what it's worth). Compelling stage pictures are also a very important part of directing ... but I'm glad you've decided there's nothing to do in this musical as a director besides creating pictures. |
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| re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:47 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change - Chazwaza 06:09 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| What’s the story? | |
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| re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 07:04 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change - Singapore/Fling 06:47 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| This is bizarre and bonkers that you have not seen this show, but based on what you've heard or read, you have declared it is a waste for any college student to spend time directing... and to justify that I think it wouldn't be a bad project for them, I have to tell you "the story" of the musical in question. Even if you're right, which you're not and also is irrelevant as you haven't seen it, do you think college theater students only work on the best and most worthy plays and musicals? Trust me, it's not the case. Not for student projects and very often not even for mainstages. Some of the musicals college pick for their students enrolled at very high cost to learn at the highest level about their art and craft... shock me. So I don't know why you've gotten on a high horse here but let's move on. |
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| re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 07:22 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 07:18 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: there are only 2 musicals I'm telling people they must see while they can -- Flying Over Sunset and Caroline or Change - Chazwaza 07:04 pm EST 01/05/22 | |
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| Let me pitch this to you and see if I have it right: Four people experiment with drugs and face their inner trauma without being changed in a significant way. Is that the story? If not, then I guess I was mislead by the people I trust to inform me what’s happening in a show. As for colleges: I agree they make all kinds of awful choices, for students and audiences alike. If James Lapine and Beowulf Borit couldn’t make this show engaging, I would hope we aren’t asked to sit through a 19-year-old’s attempt (and yes, I was that 19-year-old and I teach many of them today, no tea or shade to them). |
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