Threaded Order Chronological Order
| MUSIC MAN last night | |
| Posted by: champagnesalesman 10:14 am EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| Hugh and Sutton are both in great form....Warren Carlyle's work is stellar There was an insert of scenes/musical numbers updated to omit IT'S YOU which has been cut Friends joined the rush line at 9:30 and it was not quite up to 50th street They ran out of rush about halfway thru but still had $99 obstructed view...we had previously purchased $99 unobstructed view. Like so many old theatres, the Winter Garden's restroom capacity cannot accommodate a full house. Did people have bigger bladders 100 years ago? |
|
| reply to this message |
| re: MUSIC MAN last night | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 01:02 am EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: MUSIC MAN last night - champagnesalesman 10:14 am EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| That is not good news. Why would anyone cut that song? It’s not a problematic show. There’s nothing to fix so why are they messing with it? Ugh. | |
| reply to this message |
| They cut “It’s You”?! | |
| Posted by: Roman 01:05 pm EST 01/07/22 | |
| In reply to: MUSIC MAN last night - champagnesalesman 10:14 am EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| Aww, nuts. That’s my favorite number. It’s so simple and sweet and beguiling. Ugh. The more I hear about this revival, the less I want to see it. This sucks. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: They cut “It’s You”?! | |
| Posted by: BigM 03:41 pm EST 01/12/22 | |
| In reply to: They cut “It’s You”?! - Roman 01:05 pm EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| I must admit, no offense, that I'm fed up with the complaining about the revival cutting "It's You." If that's really your favorite song from the show, I'm sorry, but this is by any standard a major revival and sometimes songs are cut. Personal affection aside, it's a minor number in the overall scheme of the show. This reminds me of the fuss over the film of Chicago cutting "Class" - another minor number that suddenly became the best song in the show, according to some critics. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: They cut “It’s You”?! | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 02:15 am EST 01/13/22 | |
| In reply to: re: They cut “It’s You”?! - BigM 03:41 pm EST 01/12/22 | |
|
|
|
| I don't think "Class" can be called minor at all, and I don't think it's at all comparable to "It's You", which isn't even sung by actual characters in the show. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: They cut “It’s You”?! | |
| Posted by: larry13 06:12 pm EST 01/12/22 | |
| In reply to: re: They cut “It’s You”?! - BigM 03:41 pm EST 01/12/22 | |
|
|
|
| I'll leave MUSIC MAN for others to comment further about, if they wish. "Class" is top drawer Kander & Ebb. No question that's a very full drawer. But there's no good reason to cut a great song, even if you deem it somehow "another minor number." | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: They cut “It’s You”?! | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 10:02 am EST 01/13/22 | |
| In reply to: re: They cut “It’s You”?! - larry13 06:12 pm EST 01/12/22 | |
|
|
|
| In this particular case, they had a very good reason for cutting the song, which was that most of the songs in the film take place in Roxie's mind...and they couldn't find any way that she might have envisioned this song happening. That reasoning makes sense to me and, as much as I love the song, I completely understand cutting it. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| cutting songs for movies | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 03:09 pm EST 01/13/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 03:06 pm EST 01/13/22 | |
| In reply to: re: They cut “It’s You”?! - JereNYC 10:02 am EST 01/13/22 | |
|
|
|
| "Class", as sad as I was to see it gone and not part of the Chicago experience (beyond liking the song and the duet for those two character, I loved the quite wry 3 minutes it took to comment on itself, a nice break from the rest of the show, with a fun irony of who is doing the commenting) ... it's one of the few songs cut from the movie version that I cannot argue with because of the movie's concept. Unlike, say, "Momma I'm a Big Girl Now" which I still think was a mistake to cut from Hairspray, and a number that would have been particularly fun to have shot in a 60s movie style. I've heard the director explaining why he thought it had to be cut and I still don't agree. And 1/3 of the score of Sweeney Todd. I've also heard Burton's reasoning and I think he was wrong. Cutting "No More" from Into the Woods, which I think is inexcusable. There are countless examples of songs cut that weakened the musical as a movie... but "Class" isn't arguable. I think it's fortunate that no other song in the score fell victim to not fitting into the concept for the movie. The more I think about the concept though, the more I wonder if it actually sabotages the actual point of it being a vaudeville - using the vaudeville format as a metaphor and commentary on the criminal justice system and the media, rather than clearly telling us that they're all done as vaudeville numbers because Roxy wants to be a star in vaudeville. It still comments on the obsession with fame and attention, etc... but in some ways I'd argue it actually defangs the show and misunderstands it. Hopefully the dialogue and lyrics for "Razzle Dazzle" eventually bring the movie audience to draw the same conclusion that the broadway audiences hopefully drew. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: They cut “It’s You”?! | |
| Posted by: BigM 08:04 pm EST 01/12/22 | |
| In reply to: re: They cut “It’s You”?! - larry13 06:12 pm EST 01/12/22 | |
|
|
|
| It's a minor number because it doesn't advance the story and doesn't illuminate the inner lives of major characters. In Chicago, originally a Bob Fosse musical in which dance played a major part, Class was a sit down number with no dancing at all. The song has a couple of good jokes, but I strongly disagree with labeling it a great song. And yes, even good numbers are cut from musicals all the time, often because they slow the pace and prove to be distractions from the plot. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: They cut “It’s You”?! | |
| Posted by: AlexanderKat 01:55 pm EST 01/07/22 | |
| In reply to: They cut “It’s You”?! - Roman 01:05 pm EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| "The Music Man" with the original cast was my first Broadway show as a child. I can still remember it like it was yesterday. I recall every time the Buffalo Bills appeared on stage the audience loved hearing them sing, especially "It's You." It perfectly caught the sound of the era. A shame it's been cut. I've mentioned this before but the biggest response to any of the score's numbers that day was the Act One closer, "The Wells Fargo Wagon." It had a gradual build much like "Oklahoma" did over a decade earlier with the singers eventually reaching the apron of the stage singing at full volume. Side note: Even at the ages of six and seven, my sister and I wondered why there was such an age difference between spinster Marian and young Winthrop....lol. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: MUSIC MAN last night | |
| Posted by: carolinaguy 11:22 am EST 01/07/22 | |
| In reply to: MUSIC MAN last night - champagnesalesman 10:14 am EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| LOL, I've often wondered that about the bathrooms too. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that when these theaters were built, people weren't constantly sucking down coffee and bottled water like they are today. I have tickets for this production in late April; fervently hope we're in a better place re: omicron and the pandemic by then. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: MUSIC MAN last night | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 05:15 pm EST 01/10/22 | |
| In reply to: re: MUSIC MAN last night - carolinaguy 11:22 am EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| One thing to consider is that, in the golden age of Broadway, musicals were often written with latecomers, whether from the restrooms or the bar across the street, in mind. Musicals had sizeable overtures and entr'actes and the first number of the second act was often something fun and non-plot-specific, so that latecomers to the second act hadn't really missed anything. I imagine that a 15 minute intermission could easily be stretched to 25 minutes or more. My sense is that musicals aren't really written that way anymore, so it's much more necessary to show up on time (even if people have learned that "on time" is now 10 minutes past the posted curtain time) and do your business in the 15 minutes allotted for the intermission. And I also bet that a good portion of theatregoers in bygone days were smart enough to do as people still do today, which is to plan their time around the block of time they'll be at the theatre, meaning that they recognized that 1000+ people can't all use the facilities in the limited amount of time offered, so they used the restroom at home, at their office, or at the restaurant or bar before the show to avoid having to do so at the theatre. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| Corsets | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 09:59 pm EST 01/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: MUSIC MAN last night - carolinaguy 11:22 am EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| I will never understand how women used to manage it. Smaller restrooms were built for women in some of those theatres because many of them would not be able to use a restroom, except perhaps to fix up their makeup. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| Theater rest room traffic in Europe | |
| Posted by: aleck 09:44 am EST 01/09/22 | |
| In reply to: Corsets - AlanScott 09:59 pm EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| I'm been to many theaters, concert halls and opera houses throughout the UK and Europe. There is NEVER any kind of line or stampede to the restrooms during intermission. And those folks are chugging down coffee and other drinks before the performance and during intermission. This weak bladder behavior seen here is seemingly a unique and recent American phenomenon. Indeed, years ago there was none of this bathroom traffic. In fact, in London theaters they used to serve tea on trays that would be passed to your seat by other people in the row. There was no jumping up to run to the rest room. Somehow that first act curtain ringing down has become like a Pavlov dog signal to rush to the rest room. Or perhaps what it really means is that a large portion of the audience would rather be somewhere else. That was certainly the case for me at a recent performance of Flying Over Sunset. Should I go to the rest room or should I leave? I chose to go to the rest room. A large number of audience members chose to leave -- although they first made a stop at the rest room. There used to be a time when you would go to the theatre and hope the experience would never end. Now there's celebration when you hear the show is going to be over in 75 minutes! And if it's not over in 75 minutes, you can comfort yourself in knowing that you can bear sitting through the rest of it if you could just get some bladder relief. Otherwise the productions are not transporting enough to keep your mind off of your own body functions. After a while, counting your teeth while putting up with nonsense (like Flying Over Sunset) gets boring. Can you image hoping that something like Annie Get Your Gun would be over in 75 minutes? |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Theater rest room traffic in Europe | |
| Posted by: WWriter 02:29 pm EST 01/09/22 | |
| In reply to: Theater rest room traffic in Europe - aleck 09:44 am EST 01/09/22 | |
|
|
|
| I've been going to shows since the early 70s, and there have always been lines at the ladies rooms. The lines at the men's rooms are more recent. I suspect that may reflect the prostates of an older male audience. The theatres that have expanded their restrooms are a pleasure. I have had some wonderful conversations on bathroom lines, which is the upside. I heard about Laurette Taylor and original Tennessee Williams productions and Pal Joey and Rogers and Hammerstein premieres. And then, later, I got to be the older person talking about seeing Meryl Streep on stage and the original Chorus Line and Merrily We Roll Along. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| My best rest room line story | |
| Posted by: aleck 09:28 am EST 01/10/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Theater rest room traffic in Europe - WWriter 02:29 pm EST 01/09/22 | |
|
|
|
| At the 100 birthday celebration for Noel Coward at Carnegie Hall I found myself standing in line to the men's room directly behind Edward Albee. Albee had been a hero of mine since early youth. I had always imagined that one day I would get to meet him. Well, there I was standing right there and suddenly I was a tongue-tied 12=year-old. I didn't want to say something too embarrassingly fawning or something just plain stupid. Finally, after the line didn't move and didn't move and didn't move I said to Albee "I forget why I'm standing in this line." Albee turned slowly to me and with a dead pan expression said: "I wish I could." | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: My best rest room line story | |
| Posted by: schauspieler 12:10 pm EST 01/10/22 | |
| In reply to: My best rest room line story - aleck 09:28 am EST 01/10/22 | |
|
|
|
| Classic! Thanks | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Corsets | |
| Posted by: Musicals54 04:27 pm EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: Corsets - AlanScott 09:59 pm EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| Historically, shows had more intermissions. Most plays were in 3 acts as were many musicals (the revival of No, No, Nanette was in 3 acts as was the original). The Most Happy Fella was originally in 3 Acts. Some plays were in 4 or more acts. Thus there were more bathroom breaks. So, in general, bathrooms would have been half as crowded during a given intermission. It is common to have only one intermission now even for plays/musicals that originally had two or more. And there are many shows with no intermission at all now. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Corsets | |
| Posted by: Ordoc 03:41 am EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: Corsets - AlanScott 09:59 pm EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| Really? Are you a student of the history of women's restroom habits in theatres? What pray tell are you doing lurking around women's restrooms. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Corsets and quotes | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:41 pm EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Corsets - Ordoc 03:41 am EST 01/08/22 | |
|
|
|
| Here are a few quotes, two from the New York Times and one from NPR. The first is from an article titled ”Giving Broadway a Makeover, Ladies' Rooms First,” by Glenn Collins, published in the Times on August 9, 2001. This was said by Francesca Russo, described in the article as ”the city's reigning Broadway-renovation architect”: ”When many theaters were originally designed, men had smoking rooms, and women, they had fainting rooms. They were bound in their corsets, which were so tight they couldn't go to the bathroom. And they did faint.” Here is another from the Times. This one is from an article by Michael Paulson titled ”Have to Go at a Show? Hurry Up, Or Hold It” that was in the edition dated February 12, 2017: ”Most Broadway theaters were built in the early 20th century, and featured spaces where men could smoke and women could rest or touch up their makeup, but limited stalls, because women, based on the customs of the times and the complexity of their undergarments (corsets, anyone?), were less likely to use public toilets, theater owners say.” This is from an ”All Things Considered” segment on New York City's passage of the Women's Equity Restroom Act, which aired on NPR on June 10, 2005. This was said by Vicki Revere, author of Where to Go: A Guide To Manhattan's Toilets: ”In the late 19th century, women were dressed up like pieces of furniture. With all their undergarments and corsets and truss work and long gowns, they couldn't get in and out of the clothes by themselves. So women were trained from an early age that it was improper to use a public facility.” |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Corsets | |
| Posted by: Alcindoro 06:56 am EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Corsets - Ordoc 03:41 am EST 01/08/22 | |
|
|
|
| AlanScott has been one of the most valued and knowledgeable contributors to this site for decades. Judging by your small minded response, you clearly are not aware of this. If you have any experience in period costume design or the wearing of period costumes you would know that this is a valid subject. Look it up. Wait. I'll do it for you. | |
| Link | How They Did It |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: Corsets | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:46 pm EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Corsets - Alcindoro 06:56 am EST 01/08/22 | |
|
|
|
| Thanks so much for the kind words and the link. Will have to watch that. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Corsets | |
| Posted by: keywslt 09:58 am EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Corsets - Alcindoro 06:56 am EST 01/08/22 | |
|
|
|
| While your defense is admirable and your research sound, we must consider the possibility that AlanScott has been lurking in the under belly of Theatre since the mid 1800's. Observing and taking copious notes, staving off scurvy, and hob-knobbing with Bernhardt, Booth and both Lunts. This, really, is the only reasonable explanation for his vast erudition of the subject. I believe his first post here on ATC was presented in a linotype format. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Corsets | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:45 pm EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Corsets - keywslt 09:58 am EST 01/08/22 | |
|
|
|
| LOL. Alas, I have been lurking in the under belly of Theatre only since the mid-1960s so I missed Bernhardt, Booth and both Lunts, the last of whom I am particularly sorry to have missed. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Corsets | |
| Posted by: Clancy 11:13 am EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Corsets - keywslt 09:58 am EST 01/08/22 | |
|
|
|
| Don't exaggerate. Mr. Scott merely Mimeographed. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Corsets | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:47 pm EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Corsets - Clancy 11:13 am EST 01/08/22 | |
|
|
|
| Oh, I love that smell. I miss it. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| Here ya go, Alan! | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 08:02 pm EST 01/08/22 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 08:01 pm EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Corsets - AlanScott 07:47 pm EST 01/08/22 | |
|
|
|
| Sorry this website isn't broadcast in Smell-O-Vision or Odorama, though! :) | |
| Link | Mimeographs: The Classroom Chore that Smelled So Good |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: Corsets | |
| Posted by: Alcindoro 02:24 pm EST 01/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Corsets - Clancy 11:13 am EST 01/08/22 | |
|
|
|
| Ha ha! At any rate, Ordoc pissed me off. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: MUSIC MAN last night | |
| Posted by: portenopete 08:36 pm EST 01/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: MUSIC MAN last night - carolinaguy 11:22 am EST 01/07/22 | |
|
|
|
| I don't know. I'm 56 and generally pretty hydrated. But I can usually go three or four hours between trips to the toidy. As you say, when I know I will be sitting for three hours at a show I generally refrain from pouring a lot of drinks down my throat. But I should never underestimate the brainlessness of a good chunk of the population. I don't think this is as much of an issue Off-Broadway. I'd really love to see an IQ comparison between Broadway and Off-Broadway audiences :). |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.165853 seconds.