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| it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 03:50 pm EST 02/06/22 | |
| In reply to: Revisiting the Les Miz film 8 years later; only a my 2nd viewing - Delvino 09:13 am EST 02/06/22 | |
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| I'm sorry, it's just true. If you cannot sing "Bring Him Home" as written you have no business doing this role in a top top tier production, let alone in the film. I think he was excellent in the role over all, as I recall (i only saw it the one time in theaters). The only big casting issue for me was Russell Crowe and it was an enormous and ship-sinking issue in all his many scenes and songs. I am sure many of the roles could have had even better casting. I have been curious to watch it again just to have a fresh assessment ... I do think it ranks as one of the better musical film adaptations, but not one of the best. (the best, for me, include West Side Story, Little Shop, The Sound of Music, Oliver, Cabaret, Music Man, Hedwig, Rocky Horror, Fiddler, Hello Dolly, Chicago, Funny Girl, My Fair Lady, The King & I, Damn Yankees perhaps, maybe Pajama Game -- not great musicals overall but excellent films of them). I don't think it's as good as these, but it's way better than Nine, for example. Maybe on the level of Hairspray which I'd give a B+ probably. Probably better as film adaptation goes than Into the Woods or Sweeney Todd, just because I think there are key mistakes in what was cut or changed in those... but I'd have to watch Les Miz again to be sure if I stand by that. |
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| re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:34 pm EST 02/06/22 | |
| In reply to: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally - Chazwaza 03:50 pm EST 02/06/22 | |
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| I hope you're not trying to make the silly "original key" argument. Because that's what it is - silly. | |
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| re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally | |
| Posted by: jo 08:34 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally - Chromolume 07:34 pm EST 02/06/22 | |
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| Colm Wilkinson was interviewed by Wall Street Journal on his professional relationship with Hugh Jackman when they were doing the film adaptation. "Colm was asked byWSJournal if HughJackman asked for advice. CW: The one thing I said, was "find the song yourself, do it your way. " That's the one conversation we had. "You have to do this character, this music, your way. "I told him, "don't copy me, find your own way"& he found that." |
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| re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:08 am EST 02/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally - Chromolume 07:34 pm EST 02/06/22 | |
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| I don't think it's silly. And I don't think Jackman's voice could handle it -- or a lot of the Val Jean score if I recall correctly. The song is notably more effective in the key it is written in than the one Jackman did it in. And even in the key he did it in, it was still unpleasant and strained. We aren't talking about him getting through a character number. This is a stunning vocal and musical moment in the show and should be. But again, I'd forgive his vocal limitations a hundred times for them to have cast a Javert who could sing the role (and act it at the same time). |
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| re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:04 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally - Chazwaza 06:08 am EST 02/07/22 | |
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| You did, I assume, see the post that explained that Valjean was originally written in baritone range, until they cast Colm Wilkinson and moved the role up. Had we been used to hearing "Bring Him Home" in a lower key, no doubt - no doubt at all - you'd be defending that key us "notably more effective." A good portion of musical theatre songs are transposed after the fact, to fit the performer. And changes get made along the way - for replacements, for understudies, and for tours. And beyond. Even a passing glance at bits of Sondheim's manuscripts will show that he often penned his songs in different keys than where they ended up in the show. Similar to the Valjean situation, Fosca was to be a soprano before they cast Donna Murphy, then the keys all came down. And even in opera, transpositions happen. It's silly to think otherwise. I'm sorry, but I'm not. |
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| re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 05:32 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 05:15 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally - Chromolume 04:04 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
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| Even in his own comfortable range, assuming it is set there, Jackman still did not do a great job with this song. Making it comfortable for him should have made it possible for the song to sound beautiful, and it didn't, as I recall, whether he was hitting or trying to hit the Colm-notes or not (obviously not). Maybe I'll be more forgiving with a new viewing of it. Also, it really doesn't matter to me in the least what the song might have been as originally thought of before the cast was involved. They didn't make this movie thinking it had no fans, let alone 20+ years of being one of the most successful, performed, and recorded musicals of all time, let alone of those particular 20 years before the movie was made. It's not my, or other fans of the musical's fault that we have heard it in the Colm key (and with his level of vocal ability, or similar with most notable Val Jeans over the years) for 2 decades. That is the song now, I'm sorry... but I'm not. They knew they'd have a massive audience base buying tickets because of their familiarity with the musical -- they counted on that when greenliting the movie-- with that pre-made audience base comes the pre-made impressions of the score on their ears, hearts and minds. I'm sorry for Hugh that so many much better and more rangey singers tackled and recorded the role, on audio and filmed concerts, before him... but they did. I also don't care what you think is silly. I think it's silly that such a gorgeous song wasn't gorgeous in the one major film of the musical likely to ever exist. It doesn't matter what/why/how that came to be, that was the result. If you and Tom Hooper liked it that way, good for you. |
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| re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 07:25 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:24 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally - Chazwaza 05:15 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
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| So I guess I'd ask - why this particular song - when movie musicals have been transposing iconic songs for decades? I mean, even the new WSS film has transpositions. And yet I don't hear you complaining. |
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| re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 07:57 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 07:41 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally - Chromolume 07:24 pm EST 02/07/22 | |
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| Start a thread about each of them, if I happen to see it and have an opinion, I'll post and you'll hear. I didnt' start this thread. But also, it stood out to me as a change/sacrifice that impacted the song and perhaps the presentation of the musical as a film negatively. Perhaps most of the other transposing you're referring to didn't come off that way to me. Am I not allowed to dislike changing one thing if I don't dislike all changes made to anything? The massive cuts and changes made for the film of Cabaret made for a brilliant film and I support them based on the end result (it's not quite a film of the stage musical Cabaret, but still). I do not support the massive cuts and/or changes made for Sweeney Todd, or Forum, or Nine, for example. Sometimes changes are good sometimes bad, sometimes neither. Somethings they are necessary to support an actor whose casting is otherwise pretty good and without whom the movie may not have been made.. that doesn't mean, if the reasons were noble and reasonable, that the result was good. |
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| I thought all along he would have been better as Javert than Valjean. | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 05:21 pm EST 02/06/22 | |
| In reply to: it's an opera, and Jackman isn't the right fit vocally - Chazwaza 03:50 pm EST 02/06/22 | |
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| Might have even won the supporting actor Oscar. I don't like Hooper's approach to the film and think the live singing backfires more often than not. |
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