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| re: Green on THE MUSIC MAN | |
| Posted by: Kjisgroovy 12:52 am EST 02/11/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Green on THE MUSIC MAN - dsikula 12:28 am EST 02/11/22 | |
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| ... you don't think all audiences wanted to see was Bette Midler? C'mon. Scott Rudin sucks as a human being but he never would have allowed this to be a disaster. I don't think that's necessarily a good thing... but... i think you're way off. | |
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| to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:08 pm EST 02/14/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Green on THE MUSIC MAN - Kjisgroovy 12:52 am EST 02/11/22 | |
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| I do think there is a LOT more love and passion and memory of the Dolly score vs the Music Man score. Both are exceptional. But I think Dolly is just more known and more beloved, and I think the audience has more moments it is really looking to see play out live with Bette than Music Man, with or without Hugh. | |
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| re: to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 06:23 pm EST 02/14/22 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 06:20 pm EST 02/14/22 | |
| In reply to: to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man - Chazwaza 06:08 pm EST 02/14/22 | |
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| Dolly Levi is a lot easier to cast; it lends itself to quite a number of actresses. Harold Hill is really difficult, on the order of Mame (to use another of Jerry Herman's shows) in terms of certain acting abilities and qualities the characters require. The song "Hello, Dolly!" was a popular hit, played at weddings, bar mitzvahs and of course over the airwaves via Louis Armstrong and other covers by other artists. "The Music Man" had a famous cover of "Till There Was You" by the Beatles, though I don't know if it charted very high, compared to some of their other hits. Plus "76 Trombones" became well-known and played at parades and other places quite frequently. Barbershop quartets and a cappella groups sure did and do "Lida Rose and yes, "It's You" quite a lot. I personally think "Hello, Dolly!" has some terrific numbers and some functional but enjoyable numbers that work in the show. But "The Music Man" is really a better score all around and among its wonderful use of counterpoint and pre-rap patter songs, really rather amazing and kind of avant garde, strange but true to say. But big stars like Dick van Dyke got bad reviews and now even Hugh Jackman mixed ones, so it's a much harder leading role to cast satisfactorily. | |
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| re: to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man | |
| Posted by: lanky 10:30 pm EST 02/15/22 | |
| In reply to: re: to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man - PlayWiz 06:20 pm EST 02/14/22 | |
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| Anita Bryant, that great purveyor of Florida orange juice and not so great purveyor of homophobic remarks, had a hit single with "'Till There was You." | |
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| re: to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 01:44 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 01:42 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| In reply to: re: to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man - lanky 10:30 pm EST 02/15/22 | |
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| Yikes, didn't know that. But the Beatles cover I think is more famous. The song has become a standard, and a great one to sing at weddings (which I did at my brother's wedding years ago.) | |
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| re: to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:54 pm EST 02/14/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:50 pm EST 02/14/22 | |
| In reply to: re: to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man - PlayWiz 06:20 pm EST 02/14/22 | |
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| I'm not trying to compare the quality of the writing, I'm saying I think the song in Hello Dolly are much more the kind that bring out the kind of reception Rudin would want, and the role of Dolly has much more enthusiasm and love in the heart of the musical theater crowds than does Hill. I think way more people were ecstatic to get a dose of the broadway medicine that Bette as Dolly sounds like than what Hugh as Hill (or anyone as Hill) sounds like. And the shows as a whole, I think Dolly inspires more warmth and "musical medicine" feeling than Music Man does. I adore both shows and think both are great, but I do think Music Man is a technically better piece of score writing (both have some weaknesses in the book, but both disguise and wear them very well). We can even boil it down to the adoration of female musical theater star and lead roles vs male... it's just observably more for the female stars and the roles written for them. We also had a big Music Man revival 22 years prior to this revival, which many of the audiences for this revival saw, and we have a beloved movie with a definitive performance in the role by the original Hill (and only actor ever associated with the role). We hadn't seen a Dolly on Broadway with a new star in the first cast since the 60s original (the many replacements, and Carol remountings, don't count)... and while I love the movie and Babs' performance, even more than most, it isn't considered the definitive performance of Dolly Levi nor is it by the beloved and famous originator of the role. So I think the shows are working with pretty different specs when you break it down past "beloved broadway classic with a super star playing the lead role". |
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| re: to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 12:01 am EST 02/15/22 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:00 am EST 02/15/22 | |
| In reply to: re: to be fair, Hello Dolly vs Music Man - Chazwaza 06:50 pm EST 02/14/22 | |
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| Either show can work with someone not a super star playing the role if they are good. I saw a young person's theater a few years ago in NY who jobbed in a Yale student for their Harold Hill, and he was one of the better Harold Hills I've ever seen. The show was pretty well cast, though younger than usual for a few roles, but it still delivered. And i wasn't disappointed by the expectation of dashed hopes of a big star like Dick Van Dyke, who should have been good, but wasn't and almost dragged down his whole production (with the exception of his Marian). Even if Jackman got all around great reviews, he's not worth the price of a round trip ticket to Europe or to Los Angeles depending on the ticket price. | |
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| re: Green on THE MUSIC MAN | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:12 am EST 02/11/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Green on THE MUSIC MAN - Kjisgroovy 12:52 am EST 02/11/22 | |
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| actually, I think it's fair to say that Rudin's track record with musicals has include some disasters and I think a lot of the reasons here are the consequence of things he did before he "stepped back." I think some of the sentiment now is a matter of absence makes the heart grow fonder. Or some such. | |
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