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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Posted by: theOtherJames 04:37 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| In reply to: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - ShowGoer 06:30 am EST 02/16/22 | |
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| Anecdotally.... I had a subscription for 20 years and gave it up. I don't need to see Into the Woods again. Love Life, yes. Not the 7th version of ITW. Another friend had his subscription for even longer and gave it up. Subscribers to Encores are generally not casual theatergoers or people who want to see the star du jour do a show they've seen a million times. They are (again generally) people who like the old shows, despite the clunky books. I'd get a single ticket to an individual show, but unfortunately the comments I had seen about Tap Dance Kid made me not eager enough to make the effort. Hopefully The Life fares better. |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 07:20 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - theOtherJames 04:37 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
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| But, you have to consider........if Encores hadn't done CHICAGO..................? | |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Posted by: Seth Christenfeld (tabula-rasa@verizon.net) 09:53 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - Pokernight 07:20 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
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| But, you have to consider........if Encores hadn't done CHICAGO..................? Chicago is only ubiquitous now because Encores! did it. At the time, it was underappreciated, if not wholly forgotten. (And not even old enough to drink.) Seth, unless that's what you were saying and it was unclear |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 04:18 pm EST 02/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - Seth Christenfeld 09:53 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
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| Underappreciated, yes; forgotten, no. Nobody who knew anything about musical theater had forgotten Chicago by the Nineties. And nobody who doesn't know anything about musical theater had ever possessed any information to forget. | |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 04:58 pm EST 02/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - keikekaze 04:18 pm EST 02/17/22 | |
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| I don't know what their written or commonly understood mission statement was in the early/mid 90s, but I think underappreciated is enough for it to fall into their purview... and I don't blame them if they were able to get such key players involved creatively to honor/celebrate Fosse's least known major work (in that there's no film or filmed staged production, at the time, but was maybe the most Fosse of the Fosse works)... and if they thought it might have a chance to be a hit (not sure if they thought that way then). But any show as good as Chicago, by such massively major musical theater writers, that was so sadly overshadowed by the biggest blockbuster and critical success Broadway had ever seen up to that point... and met with mixed critical reception, deserved a spot at Encores even if it wasn't a forgotten gem from 20+ years prior. If you ask me (which no one did. :) ) |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 12:26 am EST 02/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - Seth Christenfeld 09:53 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
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| I don't have a long list of productions handy, but I would not say that it was forgotten, although a bit underappreciated. But it was definitely showing up in productions. Not as much as the standard-rep shows, but it was getting done in community theatres, dinner theatres, and so on, after the tours based on the original production that continued into 1982 or so. There was a London concert Crusaid benefit in 1990, and the famous Long Beach production mentioned by KingSpeed. It certainly was not forgotten in New York or the Encores! would not have been completely sold out in advance, the first time that had happened (and it hasn't happened much since). |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Posted by: ChattaMatta 01:54 pm EST 02/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - AlanScott 12:26 am EST 02/17/22 | |
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| But Chicago was not a household musical they way it is now, despite sporadic productions. I remember in college in the 90s, our musical theater professor introduced us to "All That Jazz." He presented it as a rare musical appreciated by insiders, but not widely known. This felt correct because none of us young rabid fans had heard of it. There wasn't even a CD, I believe, because a year or so later, they issued a CD and I recall being thrilled to FINALLY hear this full score. Then the '96 production hit and the rest is history. |
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| I recall that a student production of CHICAGO was done at my college in 1991... | |
| Posted by: MeredithChandler1973 07:25 am EST 02/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - AlanScott 12:26 am EST 02/17/22 | |
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| Everyone thought, "What's CHICAGO?" | |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 11:33 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - Seth Christenfeld 09:53 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
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| I believe there was a bus and truck tour of Chicago in 1993ish and a SoCal production with Bebe in 1995ish. | |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 07:04 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 07:03 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - theOtherJames 04:37 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
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| Wait! I’m out of the loop. They’re doing into The Woods??? My goodness. How many times must we see this show? I liked the original production but cmon now. | |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Posted by: theOtherJames 07:17 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - KingSpeed 07:03 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
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| Exactly! | |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Last Edit: ShowGoer 05:19 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| Posted by: ShowGoer 05:15 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - theOtherJames 04:37 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
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| Exactly. I didn't renew, same as you, but relented and got a last-minute ticket for Tap Dance Kid, only to mostly regret it. (it had moments, but I wish I'd left my memories of the original production alone.) "The Life" seems poised to make the same mistakes. Even 25 years ago, most of the appeal of "The Life" was that we all knew it was kind of a trashy glitzy Frankenstein monster of a show – a musical conceived and begun in the 1980s about the seediness of Times Square during that period, but which took so long to develop that it happened to be opening the same year that "Lion King" re-opened the New Amsterdam and that the Disneyfication of 42nd Street was beginning, staged to a fare-thee-well by Michael Blakemore and with a terrific cast that included 4 of the show's eleven (!) Tony nominations (2 of whom of course won, Lillias White and Chuck Cooper). So it was already a period piece that asked us to care about its characters even as it somewhat romanticized the milieu they lived in, and still made room for catchy tunes like "Use What You Got (Until What You Got Is Gone)" and "My Body" which weren't that different from the dance-hall-girl numbers in Sweet Charity.... in short, the perfect example of a show that tried to have it both ways, and to a degree, love it or hate it, succeeded in its limited way. But love it or hate it, right from conception, that's all baked in to the material. What I can't imagine working, or that I have much interest in seeing (to borrow a phrase from portenopete) is a production of "The Life" that tries to make it into something profound and capable of changing history.... one that condems "the infrastructure that creates pimps, prostitutes and drug addicts", as Billy Porter said in the Times, at the expense of any of the wit and glitz that helped put "The Life" over in 1997 (or for that matter Sweet Charity 30 years before that). I'm loathe to pass judgment on anything before I've seen it, so I'll stop there. But you're absolutely right, the people who have supported Encores the last 3 decades tend to be people who have affection for the original shows, warts and all. People who like these old 'museum pieces', not only despite the flaws... but in some cases BECAUSE of them. That's the core base. And to alienate them by, for example, taking the fondly-remembered and Tony-nominated role of a heavyset teenage girl and making her into a generic thin adolescent whose problem is thus never quite clear, seems the apotheosis of not knowing (let alone respecting) your audience. |
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| re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. | |
| Posted by: gcarl44 08:20 pm EST 02/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - ShowGoer 05:15 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
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| "People who like these old 'museum pieces', not only despite the flaws... but in some cases BECAUSE of them. That's the core base. And to alienate them by, for example, taking the fondly-remembered and Tony-nominated role of a heavyset teenage girl and making her into a generic thin adolescent whose problem is thus never quite clear, seems the apotheosis of not knowing (let alone respecting) your audience." For what it's worth, my thought is that they don't care about respecting their core audience, and I think that is why Debessonet is there. I think that they realize that their core audience is dying out, and they are trying the more woke approach to appeal to a younger, more contemporary audience. |
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| Happy endings and Diapers | |
| Posted by: toros 10:46 am EST 02/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Amen. Yeah, Encores! is a terminal case right now. - ShowGoer 05:15 pm EST 02/16/22 | |
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| I agree. These types of changes are patronizing to the audience, who knows how to put elements that have dated into context. We do it all the time with old movies. This process also defies the (original) mission of Encores!, as has been previously noted. And I'm disappointed that the Estates yeild so readily to these requests for changes. That said, Encores! has been inching in this direction for years - what's new is that now, it's officially a part of their new mission. It reminds me of when King Lear was rewritten so it had a happy ending, as Nathum Tate did in the early 1800's, or putting diapers on nude statues during the Rennaissance. This is the era in which we live. Will we look back on this era with horror or amusement or both? | |
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| re: Happy endings and Diapers | |
| Last Edit: FinalPerformance 07:26 pm EST 02/18/22 | |
| Posted by: FinalPerformance 07:25 pm EST 02/18/22 | |
| In reply to: Happy endings and Diapers - toros 10:46 am EST 02/17/22 | |
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| I'll look back in horror. All these unnecessary changes to change history. Encores is on it's last legs with those running it into the ground. Went yearly but passed on Tap Dance Kid and ITW forget about it. | |
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