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| Patti LuPone shares her 'View' on theater etiquette, 'Evita' and more | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 04:05 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| Link | 'The View': Patti LuPone Talks Theater Etiquette After Getting Hit With Roses During 'Company' Bow |
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| i'm tired of Patti bashing the very acclaimed/popular/revived/recorded "male" version in order to promote this production | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 12:56 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:40 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: Patti LuPone shares her 'View' on theater etiquette, 'Evita' and more - WaymanWong 04:05 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| Talking about this production of Company she says, people love it because "it's gender bent. Women get asked this question, men do not. What's wrong with a 35 year old man boinking beautiful women unmarried? Nothing. What's wrong with a woman doing the exact same thing? Plenty! The clock is ticking... there's... -- and so it's much more poignant with a woman." This is not true. There's nothing wrong with it either way. But plenty of men feel pressure to be married by 35. But it was written in 1970... so let's call it 40 now, as it may as well be changed to. Just because it's slightly older now doesn't mean men don't get that. But that is the refrain from friends, it's not what the show is "about." Guess what Patti, the female Bobbie resonates with women, and the male Bobby resonates with men... "it's much more poignant." ... No. It is poignant also, for those of whom it actually makes sense to. It is not "much more" poignant. Because the show is ABOUT CONNECTING AND BEING VULNERABLE not about finding a partner before its too late to have children naturally. She says people who've never seen Company before "don't understand HOW the show could be done with a man!" Oh please. Some, I'm sure. But the way she talks about it, it's like the original show never worked and was just a hallow almost-show that they FINALLY cracked with this production. I've even heard her say that the Bobby/Joanne scene never made sense until Bobbie was made a woman, and it was Joanne offering her husband to Bobbie rather than asking when the two of them will "make it." That speaks far more to either her inability to understand a very understandable scene (including when she did it in the high profile filmed production with Neil Patrick Harris), or her willingness to buy what Marianne pitched her about the new take at the expense of ever acknowledging the worth of what it was before. (Frankly, the scene makes much less sense now and not having Joanne ask "when are we gonna make it" to Bobbie is a very disappointing cop-out, and I do not think "Ladies Who Lunch" actually works as a warning monologue delivered directly TO Bobbie) It's like Marianne Elliott and the show's publicist gave her a list of talking points. And I've heard/read her say this same stuff many times, or maybe she has points on the backend and wants to make sure this version is the only one ever licensed again? Why not just sell this production without undermining and insulting the previous version that worked to millions of people for 50 years. She also has a consistently revisionist view of Evita... claiming the show glorifies a fascist dictator who harbored Nazis... when in fact the show is not only critical of her throughout (criticizing her and her husband in every scene and mocking the countrymen who fell for her show and the global community who did too), it exists only entirely to be that. And Prince's production, more than any, is extremely critical of her and her opportunist rise as she manipulates the people and media around her and the media manipulate the people, and does not glorify her (unlike, what I'd say, the broadway revival did by presenting it like a biopic about a great woman of history). She also claims she "could not sing the role", despite being one of the only people who could sing it at the extraordinary level she could. Of course that doesn't mean it was easy to sing or even possible some of the time, but she most certainly could. She talks as if they cast her in order to destroy her. God forbid they be convinced by her auditions and consider her acting skills strong enough to let her perform it. |
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| re: Bingo.... | |
| Posted by: bway1430 05:16 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| In reply to: i'm tired of Patti bashing the very acclaimed/popular/revived/recorded "male" version in order to promote this production - Chazwaza 12:40 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| That is why I think her memoir should have have been titled "Why Everyone I Ever Worked With Tried To Destroy Me And Why It Was Never My Fault". I adore her talent and ability to sing the hell out of a score but her constant pissing all over EVITA and Harold Prince (who is no longer around to defend himself) really says more about her than it ever will about the show or Mr Prince. Classy, she ain't. |
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| "It's about this nurse..." | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 10:07 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: i'm tired of Patti bashing the very acclaimed/popular/revived/recorded "male" version in order to promote this production - Chazwaza 12:40 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| Yes, actors tend to see shows through the prism of their own productions. This is neither unexpected nor a cause for undue consternation. | |
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| re: i'm tired of Patti bashing the very acclaimed/popular/revived/recorded "male" version in order to promote this production | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 05:27 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: i'm tired of Patti bashing the very acclaimed/popular/revived/recorded "male" version in order to promote this production - Chazwaza 12:40 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| I'm a huge Patti fan, but your points have merit. I will say, however, that theatre people are often self-centered and histrionic. Add time and you get self serving and rehearsed narratives. Her very enjoyable autobiography is almost a transcript of her telling the same anecdotes I've heard a hundred times in the past from her. I love her despite her. | |
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| also | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:07 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: i'm tired of Patti bashing the very acclaimed/popular/revived/recorded "male" version in order to promote this production - Chazwaza 12:40 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| And more on her feelings on doing Evita... she is entitled to feel however she felt and remember it however she did. But again, while Prince is known more for casting the actor his thinks is the exact right fit and letting them give their performance rather than coddling or micro-managing... and I'm sure he could be abusive in some ways or negligent in others, and intimidating whether he even meant to be (though he also has a rep from many people for being very warm as a director) .... and I can't know what it was like for her nor can I doubt how she felt. But despite how she talks about it, Patti she was not an inexperienced child plucked from obscurity and thrown into a tornado musical when she was hired for Evita (hired... for a job she auditioned for, not a role she was blackmailed into taking). She talks as if she were Linzi Hateley in Carrie... but Patti was a *30 year old* seasoned actor by now, with many great plays under her belt, a graduate of Juilliard, and had already gotten a Tony nomination for her work in a musical *4 years prior* to being cast in Evita. There is plenty of reason to think Prince thought she was good to go. I'm sure she needed some directorial help or attention he didn't give her, but come on, a little perspective. |
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| re: also | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 04:44 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 04:42 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: also - Chazwaza 01:07 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| All true. I have the LuPone memoir in front of me: Her discussion of Evita begins on page 104 out of 316 pages outlining her career, ending on Gypsy. She had been on Broadway and on the road with a new musical in trouble: The Baker’s Wife. Which she dubs Hitler’s Road Show. The travails of creating a theater piece from the ground up was in her extensive professional experience by the time Evita arrived. |
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| re: also | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 08:43 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:34 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: also - Delvino 04:42 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| So being young and able, but very experienced and trained... she found the experience of creating a musical from the ground up awful AND also awful was the experience of going into a show already written and a hit in London and being essentially re-staged from existing staging by the director who made it a hit already... I grant her that The Baker's Wife seems like an abnormally difficult process, and Evita is an abnormally strenuous role for any actress... but... just pointing out, she doesn't seem to enjoy either a rough new musical or a challenging established musical (who can blame her, but neither show was out to get her). I mean what can compete with doing Fantine in Les Miz or Reno is that Anything Goes revival... but being a working actor in musical theater, those kinds of dream scenarios of Les Miz and AG are probably just as unlikely to happen as are the abnormally difficult scenarios of Baker's Wife and Evita. |
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| re: also | |
| Posted by: bobby2 01:13 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: also - Chazwaza 01:07 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| There is a video of her on youtube on Joan Rivers' talk show. She sings I Dreamed a Dream. When asked if she liked doing Evita she immediately responds with I Loved it! (or something close to that.) I think all this Evita hate is Post-Sunset Blvd firing trauma leaking into her brain. |
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| re: also | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 02:15 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:42 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: also - bobby2 01:13 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| I've seen several interviews from her during and soon after the run of Evita where she is not saying anything remotely resembling the experience she says she had now. Of course she could have absolutely been saying what she thought people wanted to hear, what she should say to keep working... ALW and Prince were two of the most powerful men in the biz (well, Hal... Webber not as much as that point, but still a big writer). But she also would say over and over how she's an actor's actor, an actor first, how she approached it as a play not a musical, how she doesn't care about or even want fame she just wants to work hard and give a good performance for that evening's audience... etc. It never sounds like she's the actress who's learned the lines they'd like to hear, to quote Eva. But who can say! Not only can no one know for sure but her... she is not the same Patti today that she was in 1980 or 1990, etc (no one is)... so she may feel very sure her current feelings and memory are accurate, and they may contradict what they were then. Who knows. But either way, there are observable truths about the situation of her as an actor at that time, of Hal, of her in the show, of the show... and of what the show is saying about politics, society, Eva herself, as well as the reaction to it (the Times review by Kerr is not bashing it for glorifying a dictator who hid nazis, or forcing a girl out of her element to sing a score she can't sing... it is a mixed review with plenty of good (including about her), criticizing mainly the generally dramatically inert narration and "talk don't show" most of the show is written in.... and adore it as I do, and as great as it is as a score or concept album, as a musical this is not an unfair criticism, and that is why Prince's production is the only one I've seen that works, and why the movie and revival absolutely do not despite that on the surface they kind of seem like the do. Which isn't to say all productions should copy his staging, but they should consider the *intentions* behind Prince's direction (vision/concept/staging) as part of the writing of the show.) |
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| re: i'm tired of Patti bashing the very acclaimed/popular/revived/recorded "male" version in order to promote this production | |
| Last Edit: Roman 12:56 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: Roman 12:55 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: i'm tired of Patti bashing the very acclaimed/popular/revived/recorded "male" version in order to promote this production - Chazwaza 12:40 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| The show has been about a man since it’s inception, fifty years ago. She is not to be taken seriously. | |
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| re: i'm tired of Patti bashing the very acclaimed/popular/revived/recorded "male" version in order to promote this production | |
| Posted by: OldTheaterGuy 12:51 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: i'm tired of Patti bashing the very acclaimed/popular/revived/recorded "male" version in order to promote this production - Roman 12:55 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| Of course, a lot of this could be avoided if the people involved in this version of Company (and those supporting it) would simply admit that this is a brand new show vaguely related to the original rather than simply a recast version of the original. Even though the powers that be refuse to list a book writer, this is NOT George Furth's work. | |
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| I know this is kind of superficial... | |
| Posted by: DistantDrumming 06:28 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: Patti LuPone shares her 'View' on theater etiquette, 'Evita' and more - WaymanWong 04:05 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| ...but she looked FABULOUS -- so chic. In fact, her natural hair looked infinitely better than that heavy and not entirely flattering wig she sports in Company. Still hoping the show is open when I next visit NY in May/June! |
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| re: I know this is kind of superficial... | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 12:28 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:25 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: I know this is kind of superficial... - DistantDrumming 06:28 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| "not entirely" flattering is generous. It is not flattering. She does look fantastic as herself and I wish the show had her looking so good. | |
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| re: Patti LuPone shares her 'View' on theater etiquette, 'Evita' and more | |
| Posted by: Phaedrusnyc 04:25 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: Patti LuPone shares her 'View' on theater etiquette, 'Evita' and more - WaymanWong 04:05 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| Here's to that lady, LuPone. Everybody flinch. Stalking theater Grinches with eyes on their phone-- Giving not one inch. Off to "The View," Before a mat'nee, Claiming she's blissed. But still, it's true That your rose bouquet Has left her pissed. Does anyone dare make her pissed? You're on her list! |
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| That was brilliant! | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 05:30 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Patti LuPone shares her 'View' on theater etiquette, 'Evita' and more - Phaedrusnyc 04:25 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| My mind was running towards “We Won’t Throw Roses” but Jerry Herman doesn’t resonate as well with Patti! Laura |
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| re: That was brilliant! | |
| Posted by: Phaedrusnyc 05:32 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: That was brilliant! - showtunetrivia 05:30 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| Thank you, you're very kind. I could probably do the whole song but I don't think anyone here wants to see that. ;) | |
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| re: That was brilliant! | |
| Posted by: kdbhwd 09:13 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: That was brilliant! - Phaedrusnyc 05:32 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| I don't like her. That clip of her doing THE song is awful. How many flat notes can you yell in one number. Jeez. I'd throw flowers at her head too! I'm just saying. | |
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| re: That was brilliant! | |
| Posted by: Roman 12:27 am EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: That was brilliant! - kdbhwd 09:13 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| One of the greatest songs in the American Musical Theatre, performed by a braying donkey, entirely without nuance or even an understanding of what she’s “singing” about. | |
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| Say what you mean, dear | |
| Posted by: shocktheatre 10:06 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: That was brilliant! - kdbhwd 09:13 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| I laughed. But Patti fanatics will not. | |
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| "The Problem Was I Could Hear Every Word. | |
| Posted by: kdbhwd 09:37 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: Say what you mean, dear - shocktheatre 10:06 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| My dislike of La Lupone began long back when I saw her in EVITA. Nobody I knew liked the show and all said they couldn't understand it. I remember being bored, looking at my bf's watch, checking the rafters to see if some piece of scenery hadn't dropped down. The audio was fine and maybe "The Problem Was I Could Hear Every Word." Who could miss Ms Lupone screaming over the top of it all? One of my least favorite nights at the theatre. | |
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| re: "The Problem Was I Could Hear Every Word. | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:22 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:20 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| In reply to: "The Problem Was I Could Hear Every Word. - kdbhwd 09:37 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| just to weigh in... Personally I do not dislike Patti as a performer (in many cases I absolutely love her)... I do dislike her memory and willingness to rewrite history a bit, and to throw the "male version" of Company under the bus not only unnecessarily but with an opinion I truly disagree with. Felt the need to say that as, i think, the poster responsible for this little section, and I wasn't inviting hatred of her performances (though that's certainly valid if your opinion... but just isn't usually mine -- I did not see her in Evita live on stage though, I wasn't alive -- but based on her recording she is indeed my Eva, in some ways because of her "screaming"). |
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| Hal Prince's Evita | |
| Posted by: peter3053 02:00 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: Say what you mean, dear - shocktheatre 10:06 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| The simple fact is, Evita's place in theatrical history is a result of Prince's vision of the as a condemnation of political propaganda. As he pointed out at the time, it was about the way propagandists can make you cheer at something which, if one cogitates for a few moments, is actually diabolical. The whole show onstage had that point of view: we will stun you, exhilarate you - but wait a moment and you will be shocked when you reflect. It was a piece of dramatic theater about political theater - and the metaphor was captured in the blend of political actor Peron with performer Eva. In "I'd be Surprisingly Good for You", a tango couple danced upstage as Peron and she signed autographs like celebrities during the dance break music. Peron played musical chairs onstage while the movie screen showed tanks and military oppression. The same movie screen that had begun the show with a movie, with Eva playing a role. It was show about a show. Over time, the point seems to have been lost. |
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| Last Edit: kdbhwd 09:34 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: kdbhwd 09:29 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: Hal Prince's Evita - peter3053 02:00 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| re: Hal Prince's Evita | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 02:38 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: Hal Prince's Evita - peter3053 02:00 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| And for some reason unknown to me, ALW seems to be very happy for the point to have been lost, as he approves countless major productions, including the Grandage revival that has been seen around the world, and the movie version, that treat it like a musical biopic of Eva. It's such a shame Oliver Stone never made his version of the movie -- which he was signed on for and had a screenplay for -- because that would likely have influenced the way Evita is done on stage afterward rather than the way the film we got does. Not that the film shies away entirely from political takes and criticism... i mean the text is still there, Che and the chorus criticizing her and mocking the people is still there, and even the excellent addition of Antonio doing "The Lady's Got Potential" with footage of military action throughout helps... but it ultimately still plays like a straight up biopic musical about a strong woman in history. |
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| re: The film version is not the only source that 'arguably' puts Eva Peron in a flattering light.... | |
| Last Edit: bway1430 09:52 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| Posted by: bway1430 09:51 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Hal Prince's Evita - Chazwaza 02:38 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| I did massive research ages ago when doing the show and while many sources mention her revenge tactics towards past enemies once she rose to power and her less-than-kind treatment of those who refused support of her foundation, no source I could find made mention of her hiding Nazis. There was one book which mentioned these allegations but said they were likely false due to Eva's religious convictions. However, we know Nazis fled there at some point after World War II and she was First Lady of Argentina from late 1945 to 1952 so we can all do the math. From books, to A&E Biography specials, Eva gets seen through the prism of a powerful woman/rags-to-riches/Cinderella tale while the musical actually does a far better job of painting her in a less flattering light. What a shame that they didn't keep Tim Rice's lyric from the conclusion of the original London production when Che turned away from a dying Eva to the audience and sang: The choice is yours and no one else's You can cry for a body in despair Hang your head because she is no longer there To shine, to dazzle, or betray Or else, or else you could be grateful Once the flash and the fantasy are cold That her star did not allow her to grow old But I, I can't tell you what to say.... I think the controversy surrounding her celebrity was what attracted Tim Rice to the project in the first place. |
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| re: Hal Prince's Evita | |
| Posted by: GavinLogan1 02:48 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Hal Prince's Evita - Chazwaza 02:38 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| Robert Stigwood approved the film. And ALW and Tim Rice SHARE the rights and approval on this property, so Rice is also eager to approve new versions of his work. God forbid authors are happy that their work is being mounted. And I saw the Grandage production and found it fabulous, despite it taking another view from Prince. Prince's is the best... but not the only... way to see the work. |
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| re: Hal Prince's Evita | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 08:45 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:40 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Hal Prince's Evita - GavinLogan1 02:48 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| Sorry but ALW is the last writer who needs to worry about his work being produced or not, especially one of his most popular and acclaimed works. Most musicals also do not have the biggest pop star in the entire world fighting to star in a movie of your musical let alone a musical which by that point wasn't even in his top 2 biggest earners! (what can compete though with Cats and Phantom?!) And obviously it goes without saying we have very very different views and opinions on what makes this show work, and on the Grandage revival. (I also wouldn't say it took "another view", i'd say it removed the idea of taking a view at all) And like I said in the thread, I don't think Prince's specific staging is the only way to see or do the show, but I do think the intention of his his *direction*, his concept for staging it and his reasons and intentions for staging it as he specifically did should be considered part of the writing of Evita, and so productions that aren't his should be tasked with coming up with their own versions of that foundational "direction" that made it a layered and compelling and functioning theater piece rather than a concept album. Your new concept for the concept should be better than "let's just literally set it in the literal locations each scene seems to take place in, and have lot of choreography!" |
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