Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: This could well be the death of Encores. | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:31 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: This could well be the death of Encores. - Phaedrusnyc 04:57 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| Please read your words again and let me know how they don’t imply Encores! did this out of fear of Porter: they decided to do "The Life" for the usual Encores reasons; they thought, "Billy Porter is a name, we should ask him!"; Billy Porter said, "Yeah, I'll do it, but ONLY if I can change it." Then they had the choice between saying, "Yes, that would be great!" or "No, absolutely not." And the second choice would then have left them with a very outspoken person who was just told "No" and would likely share that news with his public. See? You put Encores! in the imaginary position of having to do the show out of some kind of publicity blackmail from Porter. His status as gay and Black, and how this correlates to the stereotypes of “loud Black people”, are all wrapped up in his identity. Perhaps you might choose your words more carefully in the future. |
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| re: This could well be the death of Encores. | |
| Posted by: Phaedrusnyc 05:39 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: This could well be the death of Encores. - Singapore/Fling 05:31 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| Your own quote starts with "They decided to do "The Life" for the usual Encores reasons" so I am not apologizing for the fact that you're inventing strawmen, sorry. You could have substituted any of a number of names for Billy Porter who are neither gay nor black but are outspoken (never said "loud" either, but the villain you've created in your head did, I guess) and it would have meant the same exact thing. If you don't think it would be incredibly bad publicity to make an offer to someone and then retract it when they say they want to contribute creatively, then I don't know what to tell you. You just decided that since Billy Porter is gay and Black that clearly my issue is that I am afraid of or disturbed by gay, Black men. Good for you. You demolished an argument by making it about something that was not said. And that is completely untrue. As I said to the other person in this thread it's very interesting that the two of you are both angry about two entirely contradictory things you've each decided I am. Which to me says that I'm on the right track as far as presenting a neutral argument, here. |
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| re: This could well be the death of Encores. | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:26 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:24 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: This could well be the death of Encores. - Phaedrusnyc 05:39 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| As the other person, again, I haven't decided you are anything. (and my post that you're referring to, which, again, was a response to the words you said, was more a response to producers or people who think the thing you said they think ... it wasn't an attack on you for neutrally presenting what they think or have said about producing theater or at this theater or this show. Consider that I'm telling "them" that the work of white and/or male people is also valid, not you specifically). I was about to agree with you here, but what's the point. |
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| re: This could well be the death of Encores. | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:50 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: This could well be the death of Encores. - Phaedrusnyc 05:39 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| Dude, you are spinning yourself into a torment of your own making. As for your quote, you’re saying that you think Encores committed to this vision because of their fear of being burned by - call him outspoken, call him loud - Billy Porter. The rest of your waddabouts are just window dressing to your fantasy that they folded the moment Porter came back to them with the goal of radically changing the show. |
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| re: This could well be the death of Encores. | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:48 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:42 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: This could well be the death of Encores. - Singapore/Fling 05:50 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| While I don't personally think at all that this is how it played out, if for no other reason than because Lear has made it CLEAR that Billy's designs for the show and his demand of rewriting it are very much in line with what she sees for producing at Encores... But I also do not think it's out of the line or out of the realm of reality that IF they had wanted Billy to direct The Life (assuming it would be clear they meant the show written in 1997, or even the version revised by the authors after that -- since that is the normal way of it at Encores) and he said yes but only if he can massively change it *because* he thinks it's the big magic P word, problematic, that they would feel worried that to then take their offer back (because they weren't intending to or prepared to be producing a huge reimagining of the show, which is quite a reasonable issue) would risk Billy saying publicly on his enormous platform that Encores wants to do show with many black sex worker characters, and offered for him to direct it, but when he said he'd need to make it un-problematic and his new better vision, that they rescinded their offer ... yes, that would look very bad to the woke social media warriors and probably even non-warriors. That doesn't mean Billy wouldn't be in his rights to say that, or that Encores wouldn't be in their rights to take back their offer (since he didn't want the job they were actually offering) and to hire a director interested in doing the score as written ... and it doesn't mean that "wokeness" is bad. But all those things combined, in that situation... could certainly scare a producer who wishes they'd never offered it to someone with that platform who now is unhappy with their revival happening and sees it as problematic. I don't think acknowledging this potential reality is the same as a racist bemoaning a black gay person using their voice (as a black person or as a gay person or both). Also, in the age of social media, if you have a lot of eyes on you and what you say there, anything you said is said, for all intents and purposes, "loudly"... it's like whispering into a megaphone. It doesn't matter if you "whispered" or yelled... it will echo far and wide and have a lot of eyes on it... eyes who often (not always or exclusively but often) love headlines. Lots of things, good and bad things, get taken out of context or misunderstood this way as well. It's the reality of social media, and media in general, regardless of racism issues or wokeness etc. That being said, you're certainly within your rights to address how the poster's post read to you, and why. And I am not the poster nor do I know them, so I can't speak to their real intentions, but the post didn't read quite the same way to me. |
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| re: This could well be the death of Encores. | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:43 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: This could well be the death of Encores. - Chazwaza 06:42 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| I think that's fair. I also think that the other poster was unaware of the words they were using and how they played into certain stereotypes, and I take them at their word that they meant no harm. It is though, as you say, a rather far fetched scenario, but I guess no crazier than a lot of what gets tossed around on this board. |
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| re: This could well be the death of Encores. | |
| Posted by: Phaedrusnyc 05:52 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: This could well be the death of Encores. - Singapore/Fling 05:50 pm EDT 03/17/22 | |
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| No, I'm responding to someone who decided I "implied" something that is nowhere in the text and is going to continue arguing it. So, I'm going to take the advice my mother once gave me. "If someone is clearly looking for a fight, don't give them the satisfaction of getting one." No more comment from me--you enjoy your day. | |
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