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| re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con | |
| Posted by: JereNYC 12:50 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - PlayWiz 12:19 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| I have always wondered what happens in River City the day after the events of the show. Clearly, Harold Hill is in no position to actually lead a band. Depending on how good Marian actually is, she might be able to provide some kind of basic instruction since it's not uncommon for musicians to know more than one instrument. I wonder how long it would be before the bloom came off the rose with the parents loving the cacophony that we see in the finale. And then, of course, there's the little matter of "Harold Hill" not being this guy's actual name. He and Marian can't even get married unless he either legally changes his name or reverts to his original name. So...how do they handle that? And what happens when angry salesmen and the guy's past con victims get word that he's living in River City? There might be a daily parade of people coming for Greg/Harold financially and otherwise. Yep, it's a fable and none of it really needs to make sense, but I've always kind of wished that Willson had thought it through more and come up with an ending that didn't beg so many questions. What if, instead of being able to keep the con going, it falls apart at the first act finale. Then the second act could be the townspeople, in ever greater numbers, and after seeing the positive changes that Harold has brought to their town, conspire with him to keep the whole thing alive and going and protect the guy from creditors and people who want to rearrange his face. They'd learn all about the guy through the course of events and the show's finale could still be a performance by the band, lead by Greg (if that's even his real name either), but in collusion with the entire town to both inspire the kids and scare off those who want retribution. Then, in the last scene, a new couple arrive in town, a husband and wife who are actual music/band instructors that Marian has found and Mayor Shinn has hired with the idea of teaching the kids to play instruments and teaching Greg/Harold to conduct. Yay! Everyone's problems are solved |
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| re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con | |
| Posted by: mamaleh 02:25 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - JereNYC 12:50 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| I've always wondered what profession could Gregory/Harold take up after he settles down in River City? He's not trained for anything (especially music instruction) and I can't see him working in Dunlops's stables alongside Marcellus. Of course, he could continue to be a traveling salesman, but that would interfere with establishing a stable home with Marian. I'm betting he puts his gift for gab to work on the local newspaper via a regular column. It's as good a guess as any, I suppose. | |
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| re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con | |
| Last Edit: jo 05:04 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| Posted by: jo 05:03 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - mamaleh 02:25 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
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| Maybe even become a politician - he has a gift of getting the pulse of the community, is quite resourceful, and can easily relate to most anyone. Especially if he is as charming as the Jackman variety. Maybe as ViceMayor to Mayor Shinn & implement some community changes? |
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| re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 02:41 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 02:40 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - mamaleh 02:25 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
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| Shoe salesman, general store salesman or other store in town (or general manager eventually), or more likely teaching classes in deportment, public speaking, presentation, creative writing, etc.; he has all the skills to lecture in as a motivational speaker as well. | |
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| re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con | |
| Last Edit: mikem 01:38 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: mikem 01:38 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - JereNYC 12:50 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| (spoilers, I guess) I really love the final moments of The Music Man. The parents' pride is one of those plot twists that feels completely unexpected in the moment but also feels really organic. It doesn't feel like some random thing that came in to save the day. I think it's a great heart-warming conclusion to the show. All the things you mention could still happen after the show is over. Parental pride will tide them over long enough for some actual instruction to happen. The kids don't have to be objectively good at their instruments, just good enough. I don't know how much legal checking would happen in that place and time to prevent Harold and Marian from being married and settling down. Once he's no longer a traveling salesman, the other salesmen won't care what he does. And his con is relatively small amounts of dollars for each individual parent he conned before River City. I don't know if anyone is going to hunt him down for a con of that size that happened a while earlier -- he's been in River City for several months by the end of the show. It's not like he conned people out of their house. |
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| re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 02:15 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - mikem 01:38 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| Through a crazy set of circumstances, my dad, who was born in 1920, did not know his own legal name. Nevertheless, he got a social security number, enlisted in the army in 1941, married my mom in 1947, filed taxes every year -- all under an incorrect name. When my mom wanted to travel abroad around 1975, my dad discovered the truth when he tried to get a passport. I don't think Harold and Marian would have had a problem getting married in River City. | |
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| re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 02:20 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 02:19 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - BroadwayTonyJ 02:15 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| They could also move to a bigger city like Des Moines at some point. Marian sings in that same section of both "My White Knight" in the show and in "Being In Love" in the film that she wants to live in a cottage somewhere in the State of Iowa. | |
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| re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:01 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - PlayWiz 02:19 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| Are cottages forbidden in River City? :-) | |
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| re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 01:13 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 01:05 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - JereNYC 12:50 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| I don't know if Harold/Greg ever necessarily bilked other salesmen out of funds or stole from them. It seems like what he did was give salesmen a bad name and made it tougher for them to sell whatever they were selling. So they were kind of run out of one state by the law. They can be mad at him, but it seems that Charlie Cowell represented them (as he says he would at the beginning of the show) when he tried to put the record straight to the folks in River City when he arrived there later on in the show. If the folks of River City liked seeing and hearing their kids playing instruments, someone on the PTA might ask that funds be allocated to hire a band teacher. Music education at certain points in U.S. history was taught to some extent. We hear of music programs being cut, but to be cut, they've had to be there at some point for them to cut later on. Maybe Mayor Shinn's wife and those Pick-a-Little Ladies got on the mayor's case to hire a music teacher for the high school. They liked what they saw, and decided it was the beginning of something good for their town and that it needed to be built upon to make it even better. Harold can teach salesmanship, deportment, presentation, public speaking, etc. and be among the first professional motivational speakers. |
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| re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con | |
| Last Edit: lordofspeech 01:03 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 12:59 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - JereNYC 12:50 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| But wait. Don’t the kids actually play at the end? And, even though they sound bad, aren’t the parents and townspeople thrilled? Isn’t that the point? That he has made a miracle? I’ve never seen the show, only the movie, and a while ago, but I think the town’s upliftment is the point. As well as the inferred ability for the arts and love to make a difference in the world. (And that you don’t even have to be a virtuoso to be a wow. Or, you don’t have to be a star, baby, to be in my show!) And it’s ultimately all because of Marian. Her love keeps on liftin him higher, higher. I don’t know what possessed me to reference modern songs here. |
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| Another question re: Amaryllis in the scene with "The Sadder But Wiser Girl" | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 02:58 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 02:52 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I was re-watching "The Music Man" last night on TCM - question about the con - lordofspeech 12:59 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| Is she there so that that while Harold and Marcellus are talking about Harold's preference for faster women like Hester Prynne, having a child in the scene makes it then more G-rated? Are they being more genteel than they might be without her there, so Willson could get in a slightly risque song? Is Amaryllis usually on stage in that scene? Of course, now I'm envisioning a production of "The Music Man" as seen through the eyes of slightly worldly-wise Amaryllis, who understands what's being sung about in "The Sadder But Wiser Girl", and her imagination of what's transpiring between Harold and Marian when she's not on stage. "Goodnight, My Someone" indeed! |
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| re: Another question re: Amaryllis in the scene with "The Sadder But Wiser Girl" | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:59 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: Another question re: Amaryllis in the scene with "The Sadder But Wiser Girl" - PlayWiz 02:52 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| Is Amaryllis usually on stage in that scene? No, she is not. Please don't tell me they put her in there for this revival. Why???????? |
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| re: Another question re: Amaryllis in the scene with "The Sadder But Wiser Girl" | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 09:02 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 08:58 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Another question re: Amaryllis in the scene with "The Sadder But Wiser Girl" - Chromolume 07:59 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| I haven't seen this revival, but actually isn't it kind of inappropriate for the guys in the movie to have Amaryllis as their sole audience (ok, and the horse) for this song about the kind of free-wheeling gal that Harold would like to shtupp? | |
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| re: Another question re: Amaryllis in the scene with "The Sadder But Wiser Girl" | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:31 am EDT 03/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Another question re: Amaryllis in the scene with "The Sadder But Wiser Girl" - PlayWiz 08:58 pm EDT 03/18/22 | |
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| Oh, my - I guess it really has been too long since I watched the film - I forgot she's in there. And yeah, it makes absolutely no sense at all. Thank you for reminding me. I'd love to know what was behind that decision. | |
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