Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 07:08 pm EDT 03/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - BroadwayJunky 06:33 pm EDT 03/19/22 | |
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| To be fair, the original was vulgar and obscene too. As for lawsuits, the estate agreed to Porter’s changes. And maybe it’s not that he disliked the source material. I assume he did this because he loved much of the source material and thought it could be improved and that’s what he aimed for. He has nothing to be ashamed of. He took some risks and that is admirable even if it upset people. He knew what he was doing. | |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Last Edit: ShowGoer 12:28 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
| Posted by: ShowGoer 12:25 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - KingSpeed 07:08 pm EDT 03/19/22 | |
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| “ He has nothing to be ashamed of.” Did you see it? (No disrespect intended… obviously no one sets out to put on a bad show, write a flop, give a bad performance, etc. But just because it was sanctioned by the estate and just because his heart was in the right place doesn’t mean there isn’t cause for embarrassment in the execution – even apart from the questionable overall artistic choices made at the outset. There are critical and commercial failures of every sort for which certainly no one need be ashamed - for the most part we know what those are, and it’s the majority, whether it’s the lesser-known Kander & Ebb or Sondheim or LaChiusa, the revivals of lots of things from Shuffle Along to van Hove’s West Side Story, or Encores’ own misbegotten but occasionally entertaining, and Kenny Leon-Lydia Diamond rewrite of The Tap Dance Kid from a month ago. But then there are those shows, much more few and far between, which are so jaw-droppingly dismal and inept that they send half the audience fleeing into the streets and which, while years later people may be glad they attended, it’s because they couldn’t believe what they saw, and because hardly anyone had much of anything positive to say at the time. In that latter category, I would submit (and having nothing to do with political correctness), belong things like Moose Murders, the movie of Cats… and Encores’ The Life.) |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 04:57 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - ShowGoer 12:25 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| If Shuffle Along was a critical failure, that's news to me. It was also one of the most exciting and worthwhile days i've spent in a broadway theater in years. |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Posted by: den 05:16 pm EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - Chazwaza 04:57 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| Completely agree with Chazwaza about Shuffle Along. Is THAT a show Encores could present? It certainly deserves another showing. | |
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| Shuffle Along or the making of Shuffle Along? Nm | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 02:56 am EDT 03/21/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - den 05:16 pm EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| re: Shuffle Along or the making of Shuffle Along? Nm | |
| Posted by: den 05:46 pm EDT 03/21/22 | |
| In reply to: Shuffle Along or the making of Shuffle Along? Nm - KingSpeed 02:56 am EDT 03/21/22 | |
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| I was thinking of the recent show, The Making of…But either would be interesting to see mounted by Encores, I think. | |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:38 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - ShowGoer 12:25 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| By the way, what’s so awful about the movie of CATS? The songs and its structure are mostly intact. Seems the people who didn’t like it think CATS is ridiculous to begin with and/or had never seen the show before. Were there CATS lovers out there that felt betrayed by the movie? | |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Posted by: ShowGoer 10:50 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - KingSpeed 03:38 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| Re; your post below, I feel like you can stay true to your goals, still fail, and come to realize in retrospect that you've made mistakes that you should be at least a LITTLE ashamed of. There's nothing wrong with that, because it's how people learn. Anyone who feels no embarrassment or shame at a universally derided public failure is someone who most likely thinks they can't do any wrong at all, therefore can't take criticism, and thus isn't destined to get anything from the experience (other than feeling like "I did what I set out to do so therefore it's obviously unimpeachable".) But that's just my take. As far as Cats, I can't speak to any one person's experience, but there's a reason it's still a punching bag 2 years later and it's not just because of the jokes about "release the butthole cut!" or because people are over James Corden. There are a lot of people who love the stage musical Cats, whether as a true piece of art or as a guilty pleasure (count me in BOTH camps, the former when I was a little kid and the latter as a grown-up) who think that the movie was a risible dud; that while still having a few things of value (some of the choreography, the way a few of the shots were framed, Ian McKellen's commitment to the bit), there was a way to make a better movie of Cats. (Whether as an animated film, as joked about in "Six Degrees of Separation", or as a differently-conceived, more well-cast, and much better-directed live-action movie.) Anyway, I guess I reacted to your post the way I did because I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with a little embarrassment. Just as nervous breakdowns can either destroy you or can help you get you get your life together, breakups can either make you park your head under your covers or get you one step closer to finding the person you're meant to be with, and the death of a loved one can either incapacitate you or make you stronger, a poorly received show can either make you more convinced you can do no wrong, or can help you improve the next time. In that respect, I feel like, at its best, shame can be humbling, healthy, and lead to better. |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 02:24 pm EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - ShowGoer 10:50 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| I disagree. By the way, while there was talk of an animated Cats movie at one point, I don’t think that is what is discussed in SIX DEGREES OF SEPARATION. I believe they are discussing a live action version. | |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 02:54 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - ShowGoer 12:25 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| I have not seen it. I’ve listened to an interview with him and have read reviews so I know what changes were made. I think “taking out the comedy” is ridiculous but good for him for having a vision and carrying out. It doesn’t sound like he failed doing what he wanted to do. But let’s not act like THE LIFE was a great show in the first place. I saw it twice in 1997 and liked parts of it but my husband haaaaated it and he wasn’t alone. | |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Posted by: Mapleleaf 12:36 pm EDT 03/21/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - KingSpeed 02:54 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| You seem to have plenty of opinions for someone who has not seen the show. | |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 09:49 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 09:46 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - KingSpeed 02:54 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| As an old white guy, I try to stay out of what's accurate and what's less so in pieces like The Life. But I do know more than a few people of color, in and out of the industry, who are bone weary with so much attention paid to shows celebrating the white prism on "street culture," tired of seeing material that examines sex work, pimps, and abject criminality among African-American characters. Especially when performed for a predominately white audience. Which is still the case. So for those folks, Porter is issuing corrections to a milieu-specific story some would prefer to live on (only) via concerts and recordings. Has anyone introduced The Capeman into these many Life threads? Remember what happened when talented Latinx hands tried to fix the work of two accomplished white men? The show still didn't work. Nor did Flower Drum Song for that matter, at least for most (it was not successful, artistically or commercially). I mention those two musicals because they are precedents from a previous error of retro-fixing. If the practice were more generally successful, we'd perhaps be more willing to view The Life and Tap Dance Kid as outliers. |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Posted by: Manager-561 10:40 pm EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - Delvino 09:46 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| Well, actually… you’re erasing Derek Walcott as bookwriter of The Capeman. He was a person of color. | |
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| re: The Life...utterly shameful. | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:35 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - ShowGoer 12:25 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| You just described the original production of “The Life” | |
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| If you're genuinely saying "The Life" 2022 is better than "The Life" 1997... | |
| Posted by: ShowGoer 10:33 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Life...utterly shameful. - Singapore/Fling 12:35 am EDT 03/20/22 | |
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| ... I don't know what to tell you. At the very least It's a hot take, for sure, and as I'm sure you realize, a minority opinion. To me that's like saying "Carrie" is better than "Hamilton", or "Road Show" is better than "Sunday in the Park with George"; while there are no doubt things to be admired in each of the lesser works (just as you've clearly gotten a lot out of this incarnation of "The Life"), I don't think anyone would seriously make those arguments. (And even naysayers of Hamilton or Sunday would no doubt agree, even if reluctantly). Like I say, if you're sticking to your guns on this one, good on you... and if you're serious about it, it's good to have the courage of your convictions. But at the same time, with all due respect, in this instance I'd have to argue that you're objectively wrong. And perhaps, while being proud of your honesty, should also consider being at least a little embarrassed about your taste? (I've been in that exact same situation, while defending things from "The Rink" to "ishtar" to the Neil Patrick Harris's shortlived primetime prankster game show. I have enjoyed those and proselytized for them while still knowing full well that they''re not superior examples of musical theater, film, and TV. Either way, I'm glad at least that you found things that were thrilling about it. God knows I wish I had. |
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