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| Not Getting Married today | |
| Last Edit: lordofspeech 08:00 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 07:57 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| Are there these lyric changes? 1) »Telephoned my Shrink » for telephoned my analyst. 2) « Like Eliza on the ice » seems to be cut. Might not a gay man feel like Eliza on the ice? Is it because the show originated in London, and Are brits not used to reading Uncle Tom’s Cabin or seeing The King and I? Or was it cut because the subject of any kind of historic slavery is taboo In these days of wokeness? |
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| re: Not Getting Married today | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 09:02 am EDT 06/24/22 | |
| In reply to: Not Getting Married today - lordofspeech 07:57 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| I would have thought the reasons for the changes are obvious. 1. Analysis is much less common today than it was in the 1970s. Lots of people have shrinks but few are going over to an analyst 3 times a week to lay on a couch. 2. People know that Uncle Tom's Cabin exists and its historical importance. But few today know the plot details. Eliza on the ice becomes an obscure reference that makes people think of My Fair Lady or so some new trendy cocktail. There are still a lot of lyrics that tie the show to the 70s, but there are also many attempts to update. |
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| re: Getting Married Today | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 10:39 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:38 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: Not Getting Married today - lordofspeech 07:57 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| 1) Yes. Does anyone...still see...a."shrink"?? :-) 2) Did Ms. Doolittle ever go skating, perhaps? :-) |
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| re: Getting Married Today | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 02:56 pm EDT 06/24/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Getting Married Today - Chromolume 10:38 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| It’s weird, because “therapist” is right there and it scans the same. | |
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| Oh, THAT Eliza | |
| Posted by: DistantDrumming 01:07 am EDT 06/24/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Getting Married Today - Chromolume 10:38 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| Funny you should say that. I first heard the Company Original Broadway Cast Recording when I was 12 or 13. And, I had not read Uncle Tom's Cabin yet. As silly as this sounds, I DID keep trying to remember the scene in My Fair Lady in which Eliza Doolittle was on ice. (as for the OP's question, I think Singapore covered it well.) |
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| Dame Julie | |
| Posted by: Clancy 01:41 am EDT 06/26/22 | |
| In reply to: Oh, THAT Eliza - DistantDrumming 01:07 am EDT 06/24/22 | |
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| The evening I saw "Putting It Together" when Julie Andrews enunciated "Why watch me die like Eliza on the ice" it briefly stopped the show. | |
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| re: Getting Married Today | |
| Posted by: sirpupnyc 11:08 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Getting Married Today - Chromolume 10:38 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| I'd actually buy "shrink" as a current word before "telephoned." :) Although perhaps it's not so gone out of British usage? And "shrink" doesn't seem like a good patter word. It's like it's made of diction pitfalls. "I tried to call my therapist about it and they said to see him Monday..."? |
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| re: Getting Married Today | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 11:15 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:14 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Getting Married Today - sirpupnyc 11:08 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| "I tried to call my therapist about it and they said to see him Monday..."? Yeah, I think that's good. Sondheim *might* have complained that "tried to call" would have been tricky to make clear because of the d against the t - making it more like "I try to call" in tempo - but I think we would have understood it. :-) |
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| re: Not Getting Married today | |
| Posted by: sf 10:24 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: Not Getting Married today - lordofspeech 07:57 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| "2) « Like Eliza on the ice » seems to be cut. Might not a gay man feel like Eliza on the ice? Is it because the show originated in London, and Are brits not used to reading Uncle Tom’s Cabin or seeing The King and I?" I've seen several other productions of the show in the UK - and one in Canada - and heard the song performed in 'Putting It Together' in Oxford and in a number of concerts, and that line has never been an issue. And yes, thank you, we're certainly familiar with 'The King and I' here. |
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| re: Not Getting Married today | |
| Last Edit: Miles 09:02 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| Posted by: Miles 09:02 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: Not Getting Married today - lordofspeech 07:57 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| Eliza doesn’t die on the ice in “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” - she makes it across the (Ohio?) river to freedom. I remember reading that the inaccuracy in the lyric bothered Sondheim. Perhaps that’s why a change was made. |
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| re: Not Getting Married today | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:15 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Not Getting Married today - Miles 09:02 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| Yes. Though of course AMY (or JAMIE) may not realize the reference is wrong. Just like Booth's reference to "attention must be paid" in Assassins. Characters often get things wrong. :-) |
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| re: Not Getting Married today | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:17 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: Not Getting Married today - lordofspeech 07:57 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| In reference to your last point, context is everything. Mentioning historic slavery is totally fine. A white man comparing himself and his fear of getting married to a Black mother attempting to free slavery with her baby is not so fine. | |
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| re: Not Getting Married today | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 08:28 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Not Getting Married today - Singapore/Fling 08:17 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| Did Sondheim censor himself in this instance or was it suggested to him because of his identifying himself as a white male. | |
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| re: Not Getting Married today | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 08:52 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:51 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Not Getting Married today - lordofspeech 08:28 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| A) We don't know why the lyric was changed. You suggested this as a reason, but we don't know. B) The reference would be awkward written by a person of any race, because it's a rather flippant, facile, and entitled comparison. |
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| Who do you think knows the answer to that? | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:33 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Not Getting Married today - lordofspeech 08:28 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| Either way, he clearly approved the change. | |
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| re: Getting Married today | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:28 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Not Getting Married today - Singapore/Fling 08:17 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| Or, it might just be that Sondheim took another look at the lyric after all these years, thought it might be weaker than it needs to be, and changed it. BTW - the name of the song is "Getting Married Today." :-) |
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| re: Getting Married today | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 09:15 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Getting Married today - Chromolume 08:28 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| Eliza is a figment of Harriet Beecher Stowe’s imagination. Eliza is a mixed race female. Harriet Beecher Stowe was probably a light-skinned or white female. | |
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| re: Getting Married today | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:49 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Getting Married today - Chromolume 08:28 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| 100 %. I was purely answering the idea that "slavery" is verbotten in "Woke" theater, not supporting the idea that this was why the change was made. I could have been clearer about that. I have no idea why it was changed, or even if it was changed in the first place, since I haven't listened to the song since I saw the show many months ago. But these "lovable cranks" like to act as if Woke means you can't mention anything unpleasant, as opposed to it being more about context and respect. |
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| I assumed it was because the singer is now a male. (nm) | |
| Posted by: BigM 08:52 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Getting Married today - Singapore/Fling 08:49 pm EDT 06/23/22 | |
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| nm | |
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