Threaded Order Chronological Order
| Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 07:43 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| A little Broadway history to contextualize a recent contractual exit. Remember Henry Goodman’s quick firing from The Producers? “Henry Goodman has been fired from the Broadway musical The Producers. The British actor took over from Nathan Lane as Max Bialystock on March 19, barely a month ago, and was due to open in the show in early May. He was terminated following the Sund ay, April 14 matinee performance, informed of the decision by his London agent over the phone. Brad Oscar, who plays the musical's Nazi playwright Franz Liebkind and had often filled in for Lane, will take over the role permanently beginning with the April 16, Tuesday night performance. He has played the part of Max more than 70 times and his turn was well reviewed by the critics.” And the same issue with Richard Dreyfuss in London? “LONDON — Less than four days after Richard Dreyfuss appeared on British TV telling viewers not to see his West End blockbuster “The Producers” until after Christmas, the Oscar-winning star has ankled the Mel Brooks musical in which he was to make his singing and dancing debut. Stepping into the breach is Broadway’s original Max Bialystock, Nathan Lane, who was due to arrive in the U.K. Monday night, have three days of rehearsals with the London company and be ready for the first preview Friday at the Theater Royal, Drury Lane. Opening night remains Nov. 9.” It does happen. |
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| Link | https://playbill.com/article/along-went-bialy-henry-goodman-fired-from-the-producers-com-105085 |
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| re: a somewhat related casting incident with Phantom of the Opera... | |
| Last Edit: bradyl96 02:48 pm EDT 08/05/22 | |
| Posted by: bradyl96 02:42 pm EDT 08/05/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Discussions about these sort of things with abrupt cast exits and the like always bring to mind the West End's late, great Martin Smith and his one brief career misstep when he was cast as the Phantom in 1989 and was in the role for just about 2 months before disappearing from the show mid-week. I did an extremely detailed write up of available information about this but it's a bit long to post here, so I'll link to the reddit thread I wrote it for below |
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| Link | "Beanie Feldstein's situation in "Funny Girl" reminds me of London's third Phantom in 1989, Martin Smith" |
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| I enjoyed yr link, have listened to BITTER SWEET w. Martin Smith many times nmi | |
| Posted by: thtrgoer 09:25 pm EDT 08/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: a somewhat related casting incident with Phantom of the Opera... - bradyl96 02:42 pm EDT 08/05/22 | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Last Edit: GordonSPI 11:49 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| Posted by: GordonSPI 11:37 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I thought Henry Goodman was actually very good in the role....he just wasn't Nathan. He had a different, but valid, take on Bialystock. If he had opened the London company instead of trying to replace Lane on Broadway, I believe he would have been a huge hit. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: Charlie_Baker 12:45 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - GordonSPI 11:37 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| A non-theatre person co-worker saw Goodman with her husband and quite enjoyed him. She couldn't understand why he would be replaced. More to the Lane/Broderick form would have been the pairing of Jason Alexander and Martin Short. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:42 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Charlie_Baker 12:45 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| I would MUCH rather see Martin Short as Max and Jason Alexander as Leo. I think both could do both roles very well, but that's the way I see it best. |
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| Going back in time: Who should have replaced Lane? | |
| Posted by: tmwctd 04:57 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Chazwaza 01:42 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| With hindsight - who would you have cast instead of Goodman? No easy way out allowed like with Oscar - it has to be a name that sells tickets... | |
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| if up to me: Martin Short would have been the first Max replacement (plus some fun Leo picks!) | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:05 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 05:55 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: Going back in time: Who should have replaced Lane? - tmwctd 04:57 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| He has a very different look and general sensibility, but comes from the same old school broad but smart theater musical comedy traditions and skills that Lane employs. And his name, especially then, I think would have sold tickets. I assume the producers decided a non-name who was making a fraction of what Lane was making (100k vs 15k/week) would be a safer bet for continued profit... with the show's title and reputation and Tonys sweep selling the tickets, and I can see why that'd be worth betting (it did for awhile after Lane left regardless of who was in... though not nearly as long as one might have assumed)... but I think Short would have been a big get and someone the audience is there warmly ready to laugh with and at no matter how similar or dissimilar his performance line for line would be to Lane's. With Short I'd have been happy to see a theater (and TV) pro like... let's say... Mark Linn-Baker... as Leo. I'd be curious also how someone like David Alan Grier might have done, or Michael Jeter (he may have been too ill at the time to consider it but still). Lee Wilcoff would also have been an interesting choice. David Hyde Pierce would have been obvious, but I'm sure he was too busy and too much $ at the time. Peter MacNicol or Greg Germann also would have been fantastic. |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: tmwctd 04:53 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Chazwaza 01:42 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| I saw an interview with Alexander who said that he felt somehow above playing Max as the role has no depth. I remember some reviews that also indicated a switch would have benefitted the show. |
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| Faye Dunaway and Patti Lupone in Sunset Blvd. nm | |
| Posted by: bobby2 01:49 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| ddd | |
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| A casting mistake | |
| Posted by: kmval 05:34 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| John C. Reilly as Stanley Kowalski? That didn't work. | |
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| Louis Jourdan in ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE FOREVER (nmi) | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 05:05 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| re: Louis Jourdan in ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE FOREVER (nmi) | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 06:05 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Louis Jourdan in ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE FOREVER (nmi) - BroadwayTonyJ 05:05 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| William Daniels, also in the cast, thought letting Jourdan go was a mistake. | |
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| re: Louis Jourdan in ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE FOREVER | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 06:26 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 06:25 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Louis Jourdan in ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE FOREVER (nmi) - TheOtherOne 06:05 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| According to Suskin, Jourdan couldn't sing the score, especially the ballads. Lane lobbied to have him fired, and eventually Lerner agreed. | |
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| re: Louis Jourdan in ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE FOREVER | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 06:40 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Louis Jourdan in ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE FOREVER - BroadwayTonyJ 06:25 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| That explains it, especially with a gorgeous score like that, but Daniels thought Jourdan's sexy French charm helped resolve some of the show's other issues. Lerner must have been after that quality, seeing as he would later cast Yves Montand (to no great success) in the film. | |
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| re: Louis Jourdan in ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE FOREVER | |
| Last Edit: lordofspeech 10:37 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 10:36 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Louis Jourdan in ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE FOREVER - TheOtherOne 06:40 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| William Daniels was taped explaining that Louis Jourdain’s extraordinary matinee idol persona fed into the hijinks of Barbara Harris’s Daisy Gamble. Her over-the-top infatuation with this out-of-reach European hunk was deliriously funny, apparently, and, though the replacement John Cullum sang the songs wonderfully and was a very good actor, the show lost a teensy bit of Harris’ genius because of the switch in casting. Nonetheless, that girl, on Broadway opposite Cullum when I saw her, was sheer delectability. What a talent!!!! |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman/Dreyfuss as Max Bialystock | |
| Last Edit: waterfall 01:42 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| Posted by: waterfall 01:38 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| "And the same issue with Richard Dreyfuss in London?" Those were two completely different situations. Dreyfuss was simply not up to the task, and not for the first time. He also dropped out of All That Jazz, for similar reasons. Goodman wasn't Nathan Lane's Bialystock, nor was he encouraged to be. He was quite good, as was Bloom, Steven Weber. They just weren't Lane and Broderick. I think perhaps the powers that be thought the material was stronger than it was, and that the show would survive the change in direction and cast. It quickly became evident that audiences did not want to see a different take of Max. They made a mistake, which they quickly rectified, by buying out Goodman's contract, $15,000 a week for 8 months. Brad Oscar took over the role, in the style of Lane's Max. Jim Borstelmann was briefly given Oscar's Franz Liebkind, and was even reviewed quite positively in the New York Times. That decision, too, was soon reversed, possibly because Borstelmann was too valuable in his role of Roger De Bris' choreographer, and his quite capable understudying of both De Bris and Franz. Goodman was poorly treated in his dismissal, imo, by the producers and even Lane himself. The week before Goodman was due to take over, Lane hit a point in the show where he usually got huge laughs. That night, the audience's response was lukewarm. Lane said, "Just wait until next week and we'll see how [expletive] funny that British guy is". It did not go over well, nor did the rest of that performance. |
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| I never got the love for Broderick's performance in this | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:14 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman/Dreyfuss as Max Bialystock - waterfall 01:38 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| I know I'm in the minority but I found it cloying, affected in an unfunny way, and repetitive. Lane was non-stop perfect in the role and the show, but I find that Broderick then and in most other stage performances I've seen from him relies on a very small bag of usually annoying tricks... not true in his film work, but seems fairly consistent on stage. Ah well. I never did see anyone else in those roles (besides of course Zero and Gene). | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman/Dreyfuss as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: Delvino 11:18 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman/Dreyfuss as Max Bialystock - waterfall 01:38 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| I realize that it was more of a Dunaway Sunset parallel, but it's too intriguing that it involved the same role. As was widely noted, he couldn't possibly sing it. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman/Dreyfuss as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 05:28 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman/Dreyfuss as Max Bialystock - waterfall 01:38 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| Yeah, they hired Goodman specifically because they wanted someone to break the mold, and then they found that audiences didn't want it broken. Truly, I think it's not a role that will work with something very different being done with it. My memory is that from the day his casting was announced, a lot of people thought it was a weird idea that was not likely to work too well. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman/Dreyfuss as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 07:51 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman/Dreyfuss as Max Bialystock - AlanScott 05:28 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| Alan as I note in this thread, I saw Mr Goodmans final performance, and he was gamely trying to replicate Nathan's performance. My understanding is that the producers said one thing but when Mr Goodman arrived to rehearse, all they wanted was Nathan light. Or maybe they let Mr Goodman try a new take, then made him revert to Nathan - which seems unlikely to me. This was akin to the Funny Girl casting issue - what they were thinking? | |
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| I want THAT job | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:38 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman/Dreyfuss as Max Bialystock - waterfall 01:38 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| $15K/week to do nothing for 8 months? Sign me up! | |
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| Jeffrey Tambor in La Cage - n/m | |
| Posted by: andPeggy 10:45 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| n/m | |
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| Another very quickly gone replacement: Louis Gossett Jr. in Chicago (nm) | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 09:07 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Jeffrey Tambor in La Cage - n/m - andPeggy 10:45 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| nm | |
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| re: Another very quickly gone replacement: Jenna Elfman in NINE | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 10:04 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Another very quickly gone replacement: Louis Gossett Jr. in Chicago (nm) - AlanScott 09:07 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| A few rehearsals and it never happened. | |
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| Louis Gossett Jr. in “Chicago” | |
| Last Edit: writerkev 06:42 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| Posted by: writerkev 06:38 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Another very quickly gone replacement: Jenna Elfman in NINE - TheOtherOne 10:04 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| They claimed at the time that he left for health reasons after a few performances. But the reports were that he had zero idea what he was doing on that stage. | |
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| Was that a D.O.R.?? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:00 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Another very quickly gone replacement: Louis Gossett Jr. in Chicago (nm) - AlanScott 09:07 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| n/m | |
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| re: Was that a D.O.R.?? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 04:30 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: Was that a D.O.R.?? - Chromolume 10:00 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| Even after a search, I still can't answer your question. What is a D.O.R.? | |
| Link | Free Dictionary - DOR acronym meanings |
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| re: Was that a D.O.R.?? | |
| Posted by: Ann 07:06 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Was that a D.O.R.?? - AlanScott 04:30 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| From An Officer and a Gentleman. Stands for "drop on request." Gossett Jr's character wanted to harass recruits into quitting. | |
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| re: Was that a D.O.R.?? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:36 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Was that a D.O.R.?? - Ann 07:06 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| Thanks, Ann! I've never seen it. | |
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| re: Was that a D.O.R.?? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:00 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Was that a D.O.R.?? - AlanScott 06:36 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| A classic moment from the film. | |
| Link | "I Got Nowhere Else To Go!" |
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| Then it should be DOR (and not D.O.R.) -- Recognized Acronyms Do Not Require Punctuation (nmi) | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 09:20 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Was that a D.O.R.?? - Ann 07:06 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| I didn't start it. | |
| Last Edit: Ann 10:01 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| Posted by: Ann 10:00 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: Then it should be DOR (and not D.O.R.) -- Recognized Acronyms Do Not Require Punctuation (nmi) - BroadwayTonyJ 09:20 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| Just trying to help. And yes, I know. |
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| DOR | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 10:27 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: I didn't start it. - Ann 10:00 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| I didn't mean to correct you specifically. I was just continuing the discussion. When I googled it originally, all I came up with was Department of Revenue. | |
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| re: DOR | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 03:49 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: DOR - BroadwayTonyJ 10:27 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| I got the same link - but using "DOR" without the periods. In any case, thanks. :-) | |
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| re: DOR | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 06:00 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: DOR - Chromolume 03:49 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| No problem. I was stumped and was going to ask you to explain until Ann mentioned the phrase from An Officer and A Gentlemen. Very clever, BTW. |
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| re: Daniel Davis in La Cage | |
| Posted by: pecansforall 03:03 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Jeffrey Tambor in La Cage - n/m - andPeggy 10:45 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Fired apparently due to obnoxious offstage behavior. | |
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| re: Daniel Davis in La Cage | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 05:44 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Daniel Davis in La Cage - pecansforall 03:03 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| Hardly a mistake of casting though... he seems a pretty good match for the role, no? | |
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| re: Daniel Davis in La Cage | |
| Posted by: CookieFan 04:36 pm EDT 08/05/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Daniel Davis in La Cage - Chazwaza 05:44 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| I saw him; he was excellent. | |
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| re: Daniel Davis in La Cage | |
| Posted by: mamaleh 01:53 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Daniel Davis in La Cage - Chazwaza 05:44 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| Wasn't his replacement Robert Goulet? Hardly the same type at all. I saw it with both performers and found them very different. Of course, you can't do better than Goulet's soaring voice. | |
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| re: Jeffrey Tambor in La Cage - n/m | |
| Posted by: Delvino 11:19 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Jeffrey Tambor in La Cage - n/m - andPeggy 10:45 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Ah, good catch. I just read that part of Fierstein's (wonderful) book. | |
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| Robert Stack in La Cage - n/m | |
| Posted by: 15minutecall 10:09 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Jeffrey Tambor in La Cage - n/m - Delvino 11:19 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| nmi | |
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| re: Robert Stack in La Cage - n/m | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 04:28 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: Robert Stack in La Cage - n/m - 15minutecall 10:09 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| Difference here is that he never gave a performance. | |
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| re: Robert Stack in La Cage - n/m | |
| Posted by: tmwctd 04:48 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Robert Stack in La Cage - n/m - AlanScott 04:28 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| Robert Stack, I read, was a very fine human being but he would be the last person I would be thinking of in connection with "La Cage"... | |
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| re: Robert Stack in La Cage - n/m | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 08:38 am EDT 08/04/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Robert Stack in La Cage - n/m - tmwctd 04:48 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| It was such a different era then that it would have been seen as a statement of acceptance to have someone with Stack's reputation star in La Cage. Stack, who was friendly with and always spoke appreciatively of Rock Hudson, probably liked the idea of making that statement. I remember him being embittered when it didn't work out, but it would have been a huge leap for him to pull off starring in a Broadway musical at that time and I don't think his not being up to it was ever held against him. | |
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| re: Robert Stack, first famous for giving Deanna Durbin her first screen kiss | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 04:04 pm EDT 08/04/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Robert Stack in La Cage - n/m - TheOtherOne 08:38 am EDT 08/04/22 | |
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| in the enjoyable Cinderella-type film "First Love" (which event made big headlines at the time), apparently didn't have access to the wonderful Deanna's voice teacher at Universal, the formidable Andres de Segurola, who appeared at the Met Opera in many performances including the original cast of Puccini's "Fanciulla del West (Girl of the Golden West)". Stack really made an impression in that film, nonetheless. | |
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| Arthur Laurents' letter to Allan Carr re: Robert Stack in La Cage | |
| Last Edit: Marlo*Manners 09:43 am EDT 08/04/22 | |
| Posted by: Marlo*Manners 09:39 am EDT 08/04/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Robert Stack in La Cage - n/m - TheOtherOne 08:38 am EDT 08/04/22 | |
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| Via Michael Riedel in the New York Post: "Dear Allan, Two years ago, I listened to Robert Stack sing in your living room and said politely that he had an instrument but needed to take singing lessons. Your reply was memorable: “But Bob’s aunt was an opera singer!” I also pointed out that since Stack’s stage experience — something you hadn’t even asked about — was limited to five weeks of summer stock 20 years ago, it behooved him to get some real experience. Nevertheless, you, the Veteran Producer (according to your bio, which, however, lists no previous theater experience worth mentioning) waited until I was in London and then insisted on signing Stack without anyone hearing him read, let alone sing, in a theater. You took a full page ad in The New York Times heralding the Coming of Sonny Tufts [a long-forgotten opera singer-turned-actor] to the Palace. Brilliant! But when the Opera Singer’s Nephew was staggering and stumbling through rehearsals that were painful and embarrassing, did you come to New York to be supportive of your floundering friend? No, you hid. And when it was necessary to lead your friend to the sad truth that he would be publicly humiliated if he appeared onstage before a paying audience, did you lead him to the truth? No, I had to do that. Veteran Producer was too busy asking how do we — we! — get out of it. And who got dumped on in the media for the whole mess? You, the person responsible? No, I did. And did you, self-proclaimed P.R. expert, the Mouth always so busy giving interviews about “your” “Cage aux Folles,” did you bring your alleged expertise to my aid? No, you stuffed a white flag in that mouth and limited your concern to giving your friend a good financial settlement for being no good. The Stack fiasco cost well over $100,000. Did you pay? No, the show did, the investors did. Will they ever know? How creative is your bookkeeping? As creative as your ducking responsibility? Because who, in this whole painful and unnecessary episode, who got off scott free? You did. For once, I would like to get an acknowledgment of a letter written to you. If not, a copy of this will be sent to your investors or the press or Stack or all of them. Arthur" Marlo Manners (Lady Barrington) |
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| Link | Laurents smacks Stack |
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| re: Arthur Laurents' letter to Allan Carr re: Robert Stack in La Cage | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:33 pm EDT 08/04/22 | |
| In reply to: Arthur Laurents' letter to Allan Carr re: Robert Stack in La Cage - Marlo*Manners 09:39 am EDT 08/04/22 | |
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| and two months later, Arthur was dead, the last survivor of those mentioned. | |
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| Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: bobby2 10:27 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Or was she just suddenly let go. | |
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| re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: Musicals54 04:28 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - bobby2 10:27 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| On the Twentieth Century was directed but not produced by Hal Prince. He wanted to replace Kahn out of town with Judy Kaye. Robert Fryer was a notoriously cautious (note how nervous he was about Lansbury as Mame) and Kahn opened. She gave an opening night performance, but was determined not to work that hard again. Prince has said had Judy Kaye opened the show, she'd have become an overnight star (think Judy Holliday replacing Jean Arthur out of town in Born Yesterday) and the show would have been a smash hit. He was right. Kahn missed performances, Judy went on and killed. Kahn only wanted to do 7 perfs a week like Liza across the street. She made demands. Her bluff was called and that was that - but too late for the magic to happen. |
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| re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: CCentero 11:00 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - Musicals54 04:28 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| Prince was fooling himself if he thought ON THE 20TH CENTURY would have been a smash hit with Kaye in the lead. As someone said at the time: it's ominous when the audience leaves the show whistling the sets and costumes. What Prince did expertly with Comden, Green and Coleman was to make it seem that it was Kahn's fault and to try to get into the public's mind that the show was now a smash and that Kaye was suddenly Barbra Streisand. A completely gratuitous mention of Kaye becoming a star overnight introduced the show's Tony number and she faded into the scenery during it. Kaye is a terrific performer but never became a star. In contrast to shows that tried out in Boston that cut songs and scenes that didn't work for their stars (Bacall in Woman of the Year and Tommy Tune and Twiggy in My One and Only) the 20th Century team did nothing that helped Kahn. You can hear it on the cast recording and she had every right to request changes or a more limited schedule. By the way, Bacall and Gwen Verdon often cut songs from their hit shows when they were tired that day--and they were much better songs than Kahn had. |
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| re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: mlop 12:02 am EDT 08/06/22 | |
| In reply to: re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - CCentero 11:00 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| When Judy Kaye was hired for ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, she was hired as Agnes the dresser of Lily Garland. and was asked by Harold Prince to be the understudy for Madeline Kahn. She did not want to be anyone's understudy but it was Harold Prince who talked her into it. He had a feeling. it was a little more than two months when she took over the lead. He was right. She continued with the show for the run and did the national tour with Rock Hudson in the the role of Oscar Jaffee. The show opened on February 19th, 1978 and Judy took over April 24th. Many years later in 1987 she did a bus and truck company of the show with Frank Gorshin and Imogene Coca from the orginal cast. On tis tour, she met her husband David Green who was also in the show. She refers to this as the bus and truck company to hell, but she did get a husband from this. I saw her in the orginal and went out to Delaware to see the tour. | |
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| re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: larry13 03:50 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - CCentero 11:00 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| I won't argue about whether or not Kahn deserved to have songs cut as Bacall and Verdon did, or about whether or not Prince was fooling himself and/or having his collaborators unfairly blame Kahn or even about whether or not Kaye is a star. You and others may believe all this. What is indisputably true however are the merits of the score for 20TH CENTURY. IT is Coleman, Comden and Green at their absolute best. |
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| re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: CCentero 05:10 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - larry13 03:50 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| I don't have to believe anything, I'm stating fact. Fact: I saw the songs that Bacall, Tune, and Twiggy sang and were cut in Boston. All of this improved their work and the shows before they reached NY. Fact: Verdon sometimes cut "Where Am I Going"and Bacall cut "But Alive."--hard as that is to fathom. Fact: Prince and Company publicly blamed Kahn at the time and well after--the show never became a hit, received mixed reviews and lasted one year at a loss. Fact: Judy Kaye is not a Broadway star. Anyone who says she is has absolutely no knowledge of the business. Not "indisputably true" but merely your opinion: IT is Coleman, Comden and Green at their absolute best. |
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| but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:20 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - Musicals54 04:28 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| I know Prince thought/said that... and maybe it was true (I wasn't quite born yet at the time)... but I also wonder if he was so frustrated and disappointed by Kahn's inconsistency that it provided a very good filter through which he saw the alternative, being Kaye. I've always heard Kaye was sensational. But I've *also* heard/read some say that actually, as good as Kaye was, she did lack the unique spark and color that a more specific and singular talent/personality/presence like Kahn brought to it. Of course, you can't sell a show to people 8 times a week (or even 3 times for that matter) without ever trusting the role will be performed fully by that singular type of star you took a chance on... and Kaye was clearly a better fit for a broadway run. But I'm not entirely convinced (as if it matters or anyone asked) that Hal was right that had Kaye opened the show she'd have become and overnight star or turned the show into a box office hit. | |
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| re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: lanky 06:44 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? - Chazwaza 06:20 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| I saw Kaye and Kahn. Kahn was a star, even if she seemed somewhat distant or distracted at the performance I caught. Kaye performed it to the letter. But she was not, and is not, a star. At least from my seat. | |
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| re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 06:34 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? - Chazwaza 06:20 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| Kaye is a Broadway star. It's been proven many times over. However, the camera was not a friend, so she has had no luck in film or TV. In addition to her many wonderful performances over the years, her Rizzo in GREASE was dynamite. | |
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| re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: mlop 12:15 am EDT 08/06/22 | |
| In reply to: re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? - Pokernight 06:34 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| She definetly is a Broadway Star, She has won two Tony Awards one for PHANTOM OF THE OPERA in 1988, and the other for NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT in 1988 both as featured, and was nominated for two others in MAMMA MIA, as featured in 2002 and for Lead in SOUVENIR in 2006 which she took on the road. She was brilliant as Queen Elizabeth in DIANA recently. Judy has also done CINDERELLA, WICKED, and ANASTASIA as replacements on Broadway. | |
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| re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: bmc 01:27 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? - Pokernight 06:34 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| List to her performance of "Duet for One" in John Mcglinn's Broadway Showstoppers Anthology. Just Amazing! | |
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| re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: FleetStreetBarber 02:38 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? - bmc 01:27 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| If you think that's amazing, try to imagine Pat Routledge's astonishing show-stopping rendition of the "Duet for One " in "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue." At the closing performance the applause continued even as a scene change was under way and the lights were brought back up on Routledge so she could acknowledge the ovation (in character, of course). | |
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| re: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 10:50 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - bobby2 10:27 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| It was not publicly known. William Madison's bio of Kahn says that she was informed on Wednesday, April 19, 1978, that the producers wanted to let her go. According to the book, she missed the matinee that day but returned that evening. There are a number of factual errors in the chapter, including the date of her last performance in the show. Twice, including the date given for her last performance, Madison thinks that the show was playing Sunday matinees, which it was not doing at this time. It would not start playing Sunday matinees till December. She played her final performance on Saturday evening, April 22, while Madison gives the date of her performance as April 23. My parents attended her final performance. Just by chance. I have heard that it was one of her best performances, perhaps the best she had ever given in the show. Judy Kaye has said that she did not even know till Monday, April 24, that she would be taking over. She knew something was going on, but she thought it might be that she would be playing matinees, which is what Kahn supposedly proposed to the producers. |
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| re: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 10:43 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:39 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - bobby2 10:27 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Ibdb lists Judy Kaye's starting date as 4/24/78, about 2 months into the run. I don't know how it was announced/marketed, though. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 10:02 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I saw Goodman's final performance. He had been told he could make Bialystock his own. But the producers had him do as close a replica of Nathan Lane's performance as possible. Something Goodman couldn't do. It was sad to behold this great actor forced into this compromising position. Once again, not the actor's fault. The producers made the mistake. | |
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| And Lanie Kazan from two shows. | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 07:52 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 07:51 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| “… I got fired because the show was in trouble and I think I was used as a scapegoat. They used the fact that I had been ill and that I had gained some weight as something to fire me with although I had lost a lot of weight because I danced my ass off if I must say!” Also fired were the director and the choreographer and hired Michael Bennett as his first real directing job. “He fired 26 people at intermission one night and I was among them. It was devastation. It was the cruelest act. And he never came to see me, he wouldn’t have a meeting with me. It was probably the lowest point of my life and they replaced me with one of my best friends, Michele Lee (pictured with Lainie above). It was beyond awkward. She would be rehearsing all day in the theater then I would go on at night. They said to me, ‘You can be a real mensch and stay with the show or you can leave but we’re going to replace you.” My name was above the title: ‘Lanie Kazan in Seasaw’ and I think he wanted it to be ‘Michael Bennett Presents Seasaw.’ It was my comeback and it was very painful. I didn’t recuperated very well. I stayed in New York, I lost my home, my husband and I separated. It was the worst time of my life – the worst.” Another Broadway show fell through {The Women} Lanie’s marriage broke up, she lost her house and had to hit the road to and started to work in, what she calls, “the toilets of America” in little nightclubs on the south side of Chicago and in Milwakee. She just had one gown that she was constantly recycling.” |
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| Link | http://blogs.dailynews.com/outinhollywood/2008/02/18/part-2-lanie-kazan-talks-about/ |
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| Lanie and Michelle talked about this at length in 2020 | |
| Posted by: DistantDrumming 04:48 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: And Lanie Kazan from two shows. - Delvino 07:51 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I don't know why the YouTube algorithm recommended this to me. I wasn't familiar with Billy Masters and, honestly, only new Lanie Kazan and Michelle Lee from their biggest TV/film hits. But, they both recorded an extended Zoom interview with Billy Masters at the height of pandemic Zoom shows and interviews and fundraisers. I'm not the biggest fan of that 'genre', but I got totally sucked in and watched all 2+ hours. A very entertaining and (at times) extremely candid conversation. | |
| Link | Lanie and Michelle in 2020 |
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| re: And Lanie Kazan from two shows. | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:07 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: And Lanie Kazan from two shows. - Delvino 07:51 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| This NYT article (linked below) on the whole story of saving Seesaw is a great read. Methinks Kazan tended to bring trouble with a capital T with her wherever she went. That happens. |
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| Link | The Fight To Save Seesaw |
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| a great read! | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:21 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:20 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: And Lanie Kazan from two shows. - Chromolume 08:07 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Thanks for posting, a fascinating show/history. I could read a whole (short) book about the creative journey and production journey of this particular show (and not because I think it's SO great, I don't) | |
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| re: And Lanie Kazan from two shows. | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 11:26 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 11:23 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: And Lanie Kazan from two shows. - Chromolume 08:07 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Fascinating. I saw it on B'way, and the much better streamlined iteration that toured and revealed Lucie Arnaz as a triple threat. She reminted the show for me. And others. This jumped out, as something unlikely to be said today, at least not by the Times: "Seesaw,” starring zaftig nightclub singer Lainie Kazan as bohemian dancer Gittel Mosca and Ken Howard as Wasp Nebraska lawyer Jerry Ryan, began rehearsals under Edwin Sherin's direction on November 20, 1972." Zaftig. But even this: "The consensus of opinion was that she didn't look like a dancer or move like a dancer. She was also some 40 pounds overweight. “When we cast Lainie, she promised she'd lose those 40 pounds,” Coleman recalled. “She said she'd have it written into her contract that if she didn't lose the weight, we could fire her. Unfortunately we never checked to see if that stipulation was in the contract.” |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:47 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| From the way it seemed at the time, Goodman was not playing Lane playing Bialystock. (Or, one might say that Goodman was not playing Lane, period.) But that's really what they wanted, another Lane. Oscar could play Lane, and he did. The question seems to be, did Goodman realize that his job depended on him playing Lane? |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 03:31 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:30 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Chromolume 07:47 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I think the problem was simply that they wanted it to be FUNNY and it wasn't funny with Goodman (or they didn't give Goodman time to make it funny- obviously he gave a good audition) so they went with an actor they could count on in Brad Oscar who recreated Nathan's timing and kept the show funny. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: portenopete 09:39 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Chromolume 07:47 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I can tell you from personal experience that even when they say "We don't want you to be a carbon copy of the original ____________", in my experience....they do. Henry Goodman was (and is) a marvellous comic actor with a strong dramatic core: I have enjoyed him equally in farce, Shakespearian drama, contemporary plays and musicals. His Tevye, his Willy Loman, his Sigmund Freud and, most memorably, his Shylock were all landmark performances. I so wish I'd seen his Max Bialystock for that brief month's run. |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: tmwctd 04:38 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - portenopete 09:39 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I have seen him as Nathan Detroit in the NT´s "Guys and Dolls" and he was great in it. I know Nathan Detroit is not necessarily Max but I would consider it one of the more related musical roles. For me he would have been the logical choice for London (where only a few critics could have compared him to Lane) but not for New York. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 10:03 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - portenopete 09:39 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I respect him as an actor and believe your perception that he is adept at comedy. But he wasn't funny in the show. I saw him. I think it was probably a true case of miscasting. My suspicion (I've never seen him onstage in anything else) is that he is a cerebral, character-driven actor, even when playing comedy. Max is just a ham. In a show constructed to be performed by a cast of hams being really hammy, with a central giant ham playing Max, you need that central performance to keep all the songs, dances and one liners firing on all cylinders. If you don't play it that way none of the other comedy is there. Had HG been cast as Max in development of the show, the construction of the comedy would have been very different (and not necessarily worse), but different. Instead he joined a show with an entirely different set of comic needs. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: CCentero 09:00 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - IvyLeagueDropout 10:03 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Excellent post. A show like Fiddler could accommodate Hershel Bernardi, a very different performer than Mostel . The Producers couldn't. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: portenopete 11:29 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - IvyLeagueDropout 10:03 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I've seen Henry Goodman be positively porcine. Cerebral is not a word I would associate with him in the shows I've seen. I don't claim to know what his Max was like- you saw it and I respect your opinion that he wasn't working the night you saw him- but on paper he seemed ideal to me. (Unlike Richard Dreyfuss, whose stage chops were extremely limited and his musical chops nil, as far as I know.) | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: 15minutecall 10:14 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - portenopete 11:29 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I prefer Goodman's interp to Weber, who tried mighty hard. The original cast was made of hams who seemed to come by that naturally, which in this at least characterizes neither Goodman nor Weber. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 05:42 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - portenopete 11:29 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Dreyfuss has done a fair amount of stage work. It seems to me that Max Bialystock would not have been a good fit for him. And it is kind of crazy to cast someone who has never done a musical in a role like that. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: tmwctd 01:55 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - AlanScott 05:42 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| It never made sense to be to bring Goodman over to Broadway - did anyone know him there? I have seen him as Nathan Detroit and in a rather manic role in "Feelgood", in both of them he was great. He should have originated the role in the West End and the whole trouble would have been avoided. Later Max´s I have seen: Richard Kind Lewis J. Stadlen Fred Applegate Cory English |
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| I wonder if Rip Taylor might have been good | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 04:10 pm EDT 08/04/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - tmwctd 01:55 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| He was probably around late 60s or so at the time, but he had a wacky sense of humor, and apparently from what i read, had a wonderful tenor voice which might have been in evidence when he did the tour of "Sugar Babies"'. I know it's more a baritone role, but he might have been able to pull it off. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: larry13 04:02 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - tmwctd 01:55 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| AND...how were each of them? I'm especially curious as so many people seem to believe only Lane(or, grudgingly, his "clone" Oscar)could do the role justice. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: tmwctd (bfreimueller@gmx.at) 04:29 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - larry13 04:02 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| Here we go as far as I can remember: I love Richard Kind but he struggled mightily with the songs and especially the dances. Found enough laughs though. Stadlen I love too. Used the same raspy voice like in "Funny Thing" or "Hello Dolly". Hard worker, found the laughs, was good at playing a dirty old(er) man. Might be better in a supporting role than having to carry the show but he certainly was game. Applegate might have been the most benevolent Bialy. Reminded me of Lou Costello at times. English I remember the least but he was fine. Have to go on record that for me Goodman was perfectly fine and not nearly as far off Lane´s mark as many think. But I know I am in the minority with this opinion. I interviewed Stroman years later in Vienna and she told me that he was far too Shakespearian for the role. Don´t agree but who am I to argue with her? I had the pleasure of seeing Lane both on Broadway and in London and the praise for him is certainly well-deserved. He brought the house down with every line and you could always expect something new. A pity the movie is sort of a muffled version of the show. Oscar was a clone of him, yes. Saw the show here in Vienna too, also in Helsinki of all places. Some things worked, some got lost in translation. |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: larry13 04:38 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - tmwctd 04:29 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| Thanks very much for all the details. Not that she couldn't have spoken differently--especially years later--but Stroman presumably was part of the team that dumped Goodman. Of course, it could have been solely Brooks' decision but she went along with it. At least publicly. |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: tmwctd 04:41 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - larry13 04:38 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| That´s understood of course but I think Goodman was the fall guy in an impossible position having to follow one of the greatest musical performances. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: Delvino 07:53 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Chromolume 07:47 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Your point underscores mine: an actor judged against another’s performance. It’s compelling context. | |
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| The Producers | |
| Posted by: standingO 08:16 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:53 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I found a clip online of Goodman singing three of Max’s big numbers (We Can Do It, Along Came Bialy, Betrayed). I believe it’s pro-shot. Anyway, his performance is fascinating. He sings well and has presence but the comedy doesn’t land - except the Intermission joke in Betrayal. It’s as if the show was so tuned to Lane in its creation that any other interpretation throws off the balance of the show/humor. Which brings me to that movie. Almost nothing works. How can this show be so peculiar? I will say there is a lot of joy to be found in the PBS special “recording the producers” which I found recently on dvd but not sure where else it lives. It’s about the making of the cast recording and shows everyone in peak performance. It leaves you wanting more - And better than the movie in helping explain this show as a phenomenon. Other than Lane and maybe Brad Oscar, who I assume did a good job, who else played Bailey well? |
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| re: The Producers | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 10:12 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 10:10 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: The Producers - standingO 08:16 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| I only saw the originals, about two weeks before 9/11 if memory serves, blazing hot New York day, matinee, the show cheered to the rafters as few are. Lane and Bialystock were so one, it was impossible to fathom another actor playing the role without his defining signatures. The line readings, the shtick, it seemed in the text by that point. Did anyone see another Bialystock that landed as well as Lane or his Brad Oscar clone? I've never met anyone who saw Jason Alexander who thought he was funny enough, though accomplished. Most commented that Martin Short walked away with that iteration. Alexander is a comic actor who doesn't actually do shtick; he's reality based, which is harder to corral into a role as broadly defined as Max. If someone disagrees, and saw a bold new interpretation, I'm all ears. But the show always felt as hard to recast as any. Max was not a Tevya, or Harold Hill. Once Lane reminted the role post-Mostel, it bore his imprint forever. |
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| re: The Producers | |
| Posted by: showtunesoprano 05:20 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: The Producers - standingO 08:16 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| "It’s as if the show was so tuned to Lane in its creation that any other interpretation throws off the balance of the show/humor." I don't know if I heard Mel Brooks or Nathan Lane tell this story, but one of them said that they met and Brooks said "I'm making a musical of The Producers starring Nathan Lane, do you want to be in it?" So, yes, this role was created for Nathan Lane specifically. |
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