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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:47 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:38 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| From the way it seemed at the time, Goodman was not playing Lane playing Bialystock. (Or, one might say that Goodman was not playing Lane, period.) But that's really what they wanted, another Lane. Oscar could play Lane, and he did. The question seems to be, did Goodman realize that his job depended on him playing Lane? |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 03:31 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:30 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Chromolume 07:47 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I think the problem was simply that they wanted it to be FUNNY and it wasn't funny with Goodman (or they didn't give Goodman time to make it funny- obviously he gave a good audition) so they went with an actor they could count on in Brad Oscar who recreated Nathan's timing and kept the show funny. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: portenopete 09:39 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Chromolume 07:47 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I can tell you from personal experience that even when they say "We don't want you to be a carbon copy of the original ____________", in my experience....they do. Henry Goodman was (and is) a marvellous comic actor with a strong dramatic core: I have enjoyed him equally in farce, Shakespearian drama, contemporary plays and musicals. His Tevye, his Willy Loman, his Sigmund Freud and, most memorably, his Shylock were all landmark performances. I so wish I'd seen his Max Bialystock for that brief month's run. |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: tmwctd 04:38 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - portenopete 09:39 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I have seen him as Nathan Detroit in the NT´s "Guys and Dolls" and he was great in it. I know Nathan Detroit is not necessarily Max but I would consider it one of the more related musical roles. For me he would have been the logical choice for London (where only a few critics could have compared him to Lane) but not for New York. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 10:03 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - portenopete 09:39 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I respect him as an actor and believe your perception that he is adept at comedy. But he wasn't funny in the show. I saw him. I think it was probably a true case of miscasting. My suspicion (I've never seen him onstage in anything else) is that he is a cerebral, character-driven actor, even when playing comedy. Max is just a ham. In a show constructed to be performed by a cast of hams being really hammy, with a central giant ham playing Max, you need that central performance to keep all the songs, dances and one liners firing on all cylinders. If you don't play it that way none of the other comedy is there. Had HG been cast as Max in development of the show, the construction of the comedy would have been very different (and not necessarily worse), but different. Instead he joined a show with an entirely different set of comic needs. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: CCentero 09:00 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - IvyLeagueDropout 10:03 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Excellent post. A show like Fiddler could accommodate Hershel Bernardi, a very different performer than Mostel . The Producers couldn't. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: portenopete 11:29 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - IvyLeagueDropout 10:03 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I've seen Henry Goodman be positively porcine. Cerebral is not a word I would associate with him in the shows I've seen. I don't claim to know what his Max was like- you saw it and I respect your opinion that he wasn't working the night you saw him- but on paper he seemed ideal to me. (Unlike Richard Dreyfuss, whose stage chops were extremely limited and his musical chops nil, as far as I know.) | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: 15minutecall 10:14 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - portenopete 11:29 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I prefer Goodman's interp to Weber, who tried mighty hard. The original cast was made of hams who seemed to come by that naturally, which in this at least characterizes neither Goodman nor Weber. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 05:42 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - portenopete 11:29 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Dreyfuss has done a fair amount of stage work. It seems to me that Max Bialystock would not have been a good fit for him. And it is kind of crazy to cast someone who has never done a musical in a role like that. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: tmwctd 01:55 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - AlanScott 05:42 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| It never made sense to be to bring Goodman over to Broadway - did anyone know him there? I have seen him as Nathan Detroit and in a rather manic role in "Feelgood", in both of them he was great. He should have originated the role in the West End and the whole trouble would have been avoided. Later Max´s I have seen: Richard Kind Lewis J. Stadlen Fred Applegate Cory English |
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| I wonder if Rip Taylor might have been good | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 04:10 pm EDT 08/04/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - tmwctd 01:55 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| He was probably around late 60s or so at the time, but he had a wacky sense of humor, and apparently from what i read, had a wonderful tenor voice which might have been in evidence when he did the tour of "Sugar Babies"'. I know it's more a baritone role, but he might have been able to pull it off. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: larry13 04:02 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - tmwctd 01:55 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| AND...how were each of them? I'm especially curious as so many people seem to believe only Lane(or, grudgingly, his "clone" Oscar)could do the role justice. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: tmwctd (bfreimueller@gmx.at) 04:29 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - larry13 04:02 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| Here we go as far as I can remember: I love Richard Kind but he struggled mightily with the songs and especially the dances. Found enough laughs though. Stadlen I love too. Used the same raspy voice like in "Funny Thing" or "Hello Dolly". Hard worker, found the laughs, was good at playing a dirty old(er) man. Might be better in a supporting role than having to carry the show but he certainly was game. Applegate might have been the most benevolent Bialy. Reminded me of Lou Costello at times. English I remember the least but he was fine. Have to go on record that for me Goodman was perfectly fine and not nearly as far off Lane´s mark as many think. But I know I am in the minority with this opinion. I interviewed Stroman years later in Vienna and she told me that he was far too Shakespearian for the role. Don´t agree but who am I to argue with her? I had the pleasure of seeing Lane both on Broadway and in London and the praise for him is certainly well-deserved. He brought the house down with every line and you could always expect something new. A pity the movie is sort of a muffled version of the show. Oscar was a clone of him, yes. Saw the show here in Vienna too, also in Helsinki of all places. Some things worked, some got lost in translation. |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: larry13 04:38 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - tmwctd 04:29 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| Thanks very much for all the details. Not that she couldn't have spoken differently--especially years later--but Stroman presumably was part of the team that dumped Goodman. Of course, it could have been solely Brooks' decision but she went along with it. At least publicly. |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: tmwctd 04:41 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - larry13 04:38 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| That´s understood of course but I think Goodman was the fall guy in an impossible position having to follow one of the greatest musical performances. | |
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| re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock | |
| Posted by: Delvino 07:53 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Chromolume 07:47 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| Your point underscores mine: an actor judged against another’s performance. It’s compelling context. | |
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| The Producers | |
| Posted by: standingO 08:16 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Prior casting miscalculation: Henry Goodman as Max Bialystock - Delvino 07:53 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| I found a clip online of Goodman singing three of Max’s big numbers (We Can Do It, Along Came Bialy, Betrayed). I believe it’s pro-shot. Anyway, his performance is fascinating. He sings well and has presence but the comedy doesn’t land - except the Intermission joke in Betrayal. It’s as if the show was so tuned to Lane in its creation that any other interpretation throws off the balance of the show/humor. Which brings me to that movie. Almost nothing works. How can this show be so peculiar? I will say there is a lot of joy to be found in the PBS special “recording the producers” which I found recently on dvd but not sure where else it lives. It’s about the making of the cast recording and shows everyone in peak performance. It leaves you wanting more - And better than the movie in helping explain this show as a phenomenon. Other than Lane and maybe Brad Oscar, who I assume did a good job, who else played Bailey well? |
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| re: The Producers | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 10:12 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 10:10 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: The Producers - standingO 08:16 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| I only saw the originals, about two weeks before 9/11 if memory serves, blazing hot New York day, matinee, the show cheered to the rafters as few are. Lane and Bialystock were so one, it was impossible to fathom another actor playing the role without his defining signatures. The line readings, the shtick, it seemed in the text by that point. Did anyone see another Bialystock that landed as well as Lane or his Brad Oscar clone? I've never met anyone who saw Jason Alexander who thought he was funny enough, though accomplished. Most commented that Martin Short walked away with that iteration. Alexander is a comic actor who doesn't actually do shtick; he's reality based, which is harder to corral into a role as broadly defined as Max. If someone disagrees, and saw a bold new interpretation, I'm all ears. But the show always felt as hard to recast as any. Max was not a Tevya, or Harold Hill. Once Lane reminted the role post-Mostel, it bore his imprint forever. |
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| re: The Producers | |
| Posted by: showtunesoprano 05:20 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: The Producers - standingO 08:16 am EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| "It’s as if the show was so tuned to Lane in its creation that any other interpretation throws off the balance of the show/humor." I don't know if I heard Mel Brooks or Nathan Lane tell this story, but one of them said that they met and Brooks said "I'm making a musical of The Producers starring Nathan Lane, do you want to be in it?" So, yes, this role was created for Nathan Lane specifically. |
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