Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: Musicals54 04:28 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - bobby2 10:27 pm EDT 08/01/22 | |
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| On the Twentieth Century was directed but not produced by Hal Prince. He wanted to replace Kahn out of town with Judy Kaye. Robert Fryer was a notoriously cautious (note how nervous he was about Lansbury as Mame) and Kahn opened. She gave an opening night performance, but was determined not to work that hard again. Prince has said had Judy Kaye opened the show, she'd have become an overnight star (think Judy Holliday replacing Jean Arthur out of town in Born Yesterday) and the show would have been a smash hit. He was right. Kahn missed performances, Judy went on and killed. Kahn only wanted to do 7 perfs a week like Liza across the street. She made demands. Her bluff was called and that was that - but too late for the magic to happen. |
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| re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: CCentero 11:00 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - Musicals54 04:28 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| Prince was fooling himself if he thought ON THE 20TH CENTURY would have been a smash hit with Kaye in the lead. As someone said at the time: it's ominous when the audience leaves the show whistling the sets and costumes. What Prince did expertly with Comden, Green and Coleman was to make it seem that it was Kahn's fault and to try to get into the public's mind that the show was now a smash and that Kaye was suddenly Barbra Streisand. A completely gratuitous mention of Kaye becoming a star overnight introduced the show's Tony number and she faded into the scenery during it. Kaye is a terrific performer but never became a star. In contrast to shows that tried out in Boston that cut songs and scenes that didn't work for their stars (Bacall in Woman of the Year and Tommy Tune and Twiggy in My One and Only) the 20th Century team did nothing that helped Kahn. You can hear it on the cast recording and she had every right to request changes or a more limited schedule. By the way, Bacall and Gwen Verdon often cut songs from their hit shows when they were tired that day--and they were much better songs than Kahn had. |
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| re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: mlop 12:02 am EDT 08/06/22 | |
| In reply to: re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - CCentero 11:00 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| When Judy Kaye was hired for ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, she was hired as Agnes the dresser of Lily Garland. and was asked by Harold Prince to be the understudy for Madeline Kahn. She did not want to be anyone's understudy but it was Harold Prince who talked her into it. He had a feeling. it was a little more than two months when she took over the lead. He was right. She continued with the show for the run and did the national tour with Rock Hudson in the the role of Oscar Jaffee. The show opened on February 19th, 1978 and Judy took over April 24th. Many years later in 1987 she did a bus and truck company of the show with Frank Gorshin and Imogene Coca from the orginal cast. On tis tour, she met her husband David Green who was also in the show. She refers to this as the bus and truck company to hell, but she did get a husband from this. I saw her in the orginal and went out to Delaware to see the tour. | |
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| re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: larry13 03:50 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - CCentero 11:00 am EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| I won't argue about whether or not Kahn deserved to have songs cut as Bacall and Verdon did, or about whether or not Prince was fooling himself and/or having his collaborators unfairly blame Kahn or even about whether or not Kaye is a star. You and others may believe all this. What is indisputably true however are the merits of the score for 20TH CENTURY. IT is Coleman, Comden and Green at their absolute best. |
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| re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? | |
| Posted by: CCentero 05:10 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - larry13 03:50 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| I don't have to believe anything, I'm stating fact. Fact: I saw the songs that Bacall, Tune, and Twiggy sang and were cut in Boston. All of this improved their work and the shows before they reached NY. Fact: Verdon sometimes cut "Where Am I Going"and Bacall cut "But Alive."--hard as that is to fathom. Fact: Prince and Company publicly blamed Kahn at the time and well after--the show never became a hit, received mixed reviews and lasted one year at a loss. Fact: Judy Kaye is not a Broadway star. Anyone who says she is has absolutely no knowledge of the business. Not "indisputably true" but merely your opinion: IT is Coleman, Comden and Green at their absolute best. |
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| but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:20 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: JUDY KAYE: Did Madeline Kahn have a final announced performance in On The Twentieth Century? - Musicals54 04:28 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| I know Prince thought/said that... and maybe it was true (I wasn't quite born yet at the time)... but I also wonder if he was so frustrated and disappointed by Kahn's inconsistency that it provided a very good filter through which he saw the alternative, being Kaye. I've always heard Kaye was sensational. But I've *also* heard/read some say that actually, as good as Kaye was, she did lack the unique spark and color that a more specific and singular talent/personality/presence like Kahn brought to it. Of course, you can't sell a show to people 8 times a week (or even 3 times for that matter) without ever trusting the role will be performed fully by that singular type of star you took a chance on... and Kaye was clearly a better fit for a broadway run. But I'm not entirely convinced (as if it matters or anyone asked) that Hal was right that had Kaye opened the show she'd have become and overnight star or turned the show into a box office hit. | |
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| re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: lanky 06:44 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? - Chazwaza 06:20 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| I saw Kaye and Kahn. Kahn was a star, even if she seemed somewhat distant or distracted at the performance I caught. Kaye performed it to the letter. But she was not, and is not, a star. At least from my seat. | |
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| re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 06:34 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
| In reply to: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? - Chazwaza 06:20 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| Kaye is a Broadway star. It's been proven many times over. However, the camera was not a friend, so she has had no luck in film or TV. In addition to her many wonderful performances over the years, her Rizzo in GREASE was dynamite. | |
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| re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: mlop 12:15 am EDT 08/06/22 | |
| In reply to: re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? - Pokernight 06:34 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| She definetly is a Broadway Star, She has won two Tony Awards one for PHANTOM OF THE OPERA in 1988, and the other for NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT in 1988 both as featured, and was nominated for two others in MAMMA MIA, as featured in 2002 and for Lead in SOUVENIR in 2006 which she took on the road. She was brilliant as Queen Elizabeth in DIANA recently. Judy has also done CINDERELLA, WICKED, and ANASTASIA as replacements on Broadway. | |
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| re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: bmc 01:27 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? - Pokernight 06:34 pm EDT 08/02/22 | |
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| List to her performance of "Duet for One" in John Mcglinn's Broadway Showstoppers Anthology. Just Amazing! | |
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| re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? | |
| Posted by: FleetStreetBarber 02:38 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
| In reply to: re: but was Kaye the kind of star that would become an overnight star, or a star ever? - bmc 01:27 pm EDT 08/03/22 | |
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| If you think that's amazing, try to imagine Pat Routledge's astonishing show-stopping rendition of the "Duet for One " in "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue." At the closing performance the applause continued even as a scene change was under way and the lights were brought back up on Routledge so she could acknowledge the ovation (in character, of course). | |
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