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| Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Last Edit: andPeggy 05:46 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
| Posted by: andPeggy 05:45 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| ... live streamed their performance last night. It's been taken down, but I watched a bit of it. Beyond it being a production without the performance rights, that copied the original staging and lyrics have been changed. "What is a legacy? It’s knowing you repented and accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ that sets men free. You sent your sinless son of man on Calvary to dies for me.” “I introduce Jesus to hundreds of children as they’re growing up” With a follow up sermon full of homophobia. Another performance is scheduled for tonight. If you look on the church's website, you'll see they did a "Lion King of Judah” where Nala sings Adele’s “Someone Like You” while Simba gets crucified. They seem nice |
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| Link | Howard Sherman's Twitter |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: NYCVoiceTeacher 10:21 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - andPeggy 05:45 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| I have a play that is published. It is certainly not Hamilton but it has had over 100 different productions. It is shocking to me how many theatres, especially high schools/community theatre... take the liberty to change the play. Sometimes drastically. It's a cast of 11. 5 women and 6 men. SO MANY times they cast females as men. Or they cut whatever they want. It is a play with music. They take huge liberties with the singing. It makes me really angry. Or at least it used to. Now.. I just think.... if a high school wants to do it and pay the royalties... who cares? They are going to do it anyway. I have seen a lot of awful productions of it and I have seen some pretty wonderful productions. Colleges usually do a great job with it. One thing that is really awful is these high school competitions where they have a time limit. It might be 30 minutes or 45 minutes or whatever. My play is 90 minutes with no intermission. So they cut it themselves ALL THE TIME. That really pisses me off. A few years ago a high school in Ga. won the state competition with my play. I found out they cut it and I got really angry. I had the publisher reach out to them. It was too late., of course. I could have had the award taken away from them, but I didn't want to do that to the kids. I spoke to the Principal who was scared I was going to sue them. He offered me $500. The Director of the play refused to apologize to me. It was sort of a mess. But it happens all the time. I remember once I was at a talkback at one of Charles Busch's plays. I asked him if he preferred or required a male play his roles. He surprised me and said it didn't care at all as long as they paid the royalties. That really surprised me at the time. Now, I get what he means. I hope my post is relevant. lol |
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| George Kaufman's take | |
| Posted by: comedywest 06:31 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - NYCVoiceTeacher 10:21 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| and then there was George Kaufman's take: When a small theater explained why it wasn't paying royalties: "It's just a small, insignificant, little theater in a small, insignificant, little town." Kaufman's reply: "Then we'll send you all to a small, insignificant, little jail." |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 10:49 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:42 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - NYCVoiceTeacher 10:21 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| Yes, there are those high school competitions and they do have time limits, and guess what? EVERYONE CUTS THE SHOWS DOWN. ALL OF THEM. (I did a cut-down Assassins once for the ACTF. Not very satisfying, but we had to stick to the time limit if we wanted "to go to the festival" lol.) With grade school actors especially (though not entirely), sometimes music does need to be changed to fit the capability of the singer. Limited ranges, musical lines that don't get learned right, etc. Harmonies that need more experienced ears. or, casting actors who don't match pitch well, because someone felt they should still have a chance to be in the show somehow. (I can't tell you how many times I've bee asked "can't you just have them talk the song?") And yes, often this is done without much consideration for the music as is. But it happens all the time. And they're not doing it to stab YOU in the back. They're doing it because that's what those particular kids can handle. Also, a lot of schools may be limited in their casting pool, which typically does mean less men are available. So they have no choice if they want to do the show. And aside from Albee, I don't know of any playwrights who insist on major casting control. Particularly in non-professional youth productions. Do you object to people making 16-32 bar cuts for auditions? Do you assume the composers get bent out of shape because people do that? Really? Perspective, my friend. And if you hate that the show gets cut down for high school/college drama festival situations, perhaps you should consider putting together your own cut version, so that you can suggest what gets cut and what gets kept. Because, ALL THE PLAYS get cut. Do you think it's something personal??? And actually, the glut of "school editions" and "jr" versions and the like, leased by the big rental companies, all came about so that schools could do shorter/easier versions of classic shows without leaving it to the directors to cut, because they may not always know how to make those decisions effectively. Perspective. And respect for the many wonderful things that go on in the biz like the ability to do youth productions. Would you rather that kids just don't do theatre? Or that they don't do your play? Maybe you should take your play off the market. |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: NYCVoiceTeacher 12:44 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - Chromolume 10:42 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| With all due respect. The Play belongs to ME. It is my property they are renting. They legally have NO RIGHT to change a damn thing. Yes, I do have a cut down version available. They rarely use it. They want to make their own cuts, and although I don't take it personally because I know it goes on with many plays, The schools have no right at all to do this. If they want to contact me, I am willing to work with them. I don't need perspective. There is none. It's my property. They are renting it AS IS. Playwrights are creators. We deserve to have our property respected. The fact that you think that I should just allow anyone to cut whatever they want is just awful. I don't blame the kids. I have been a theatre educator for thirty years. I have never cut someone's work. Your attitude is a part of the problem. You could not be more wrong. "maybe I should take my play out of the market".. are you insane. It took me ten years to write the play. There are actual rights a playwright has. That is why I am a member of the Dramatists Guild. I am sure they would agree with me, and think everything you are saying goes against our protections. So, don't cut my play unless you ask me. Don't change the casting unless you ask me. Don't change a damn thing unless you ask me. You talk as though schools have a right to cut the plays... they DO NOT. |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:33 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - NYCVoiceTeacher 12:44 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
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| So, don't cut my play unless you ask me. Don't change the casting unless you ask me. Don't change a damn thing unless you ask me. You talk as though schools have a right to cut the plays... they DO NOT. It's not that you're wrong in any of this - you're not. But you also know, full well, that most schools don't ask for permission for such things. For ANY show. It seems you're taking this very personally. But it's not about you as much as it is about how such things are handled (or not) in general. And if you've really "been a theatre educator for 30 years," you already know this. But you yourself brought up the times when cuts are actually and routinely asked for (the play festivals, etc). And you HAVE to know that those cuts (to ANY plays, not just yours) are probably NEVER made with the permission of the playwright. So getting angry about it seems to serve no real purpose. You seem to want things both ways. It's hard to know what you're really complaining about. In any case, I woud wonder if ATC is really the place to complain, if you want anything to be done about it. (Meaning no disrespect to ATC.) Perhaps you need to talk to the heads of these school festivals to see if the rules can be strengthened or more carefully worded. As a member of the DG, you must know about the link below. And Abaire's work here is very good, and also, dare I say, very cute. But what does the DG do to get it enforced?????? If you don't have answers, I think your complaints, especially when put so personally, seem a bit hollow. |
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| Link | Can I Change The Words Or Music? |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: NYCVoiceTeacher 01:52 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - Chromolume 01:33 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
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| Honestly, I don't care what you think. It's my property. Most of the competitions now have rules that schools cannot make cuts without the Playwrights permission in writing. I don't want things both ways. I want it one way. My way. As the owner of the property. The legal owner. If they choose not to do my play because I don't them to cut it, that is fine with me. Since this thread is about someone producing a play without seeking the rights... my comments are relative. You seem to be a part of the problem. if you are working with kids and cutting plays... Stop. And yes I was an educator but I don't remember ever cutting a play. The answer is... it's my play. Don't cut it without asking. And yes, I do take it personally since my property is being cut up. When you write a play and then manage to get it published, which is VERY difficult... let me know. Until then, don't give me a lecture about how you think I should feel. | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 03:06 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - NYCVoiceTeacher 01:52 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
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| You seem to be a part of the problem. if you are working with kids and cutting plays... Stop. You have no idea who I am. Don't accuse me of anything. I am not cutting plays. And as I said, I don't think ATC is the right place for this discussion. Go teach your vocal students, who I'm sure are working on audition cuts lol. Take care. |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: NYCVoiceTeacher 04:47 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - Chromolume 03:06 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
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| Go teach your vocal students, who I'm sure are working on audition cuts lol. Take care. That is a pretty dumb comment. It's an audition. They aren't having a song cut down in a production of the show. Lin Manuel has plenty of money to fight this, in whatever way he chooses. My point is there are thousands of other Playwrights who get the same infringement of THEIR property and they are not able to sue every theatre that messes with their scripts. So it doesn't matter to me what you think is appropriate. Write a play yourself and get it published and then maybe you might have some idea of what I am talking about. |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 06:33 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - NYCVoiceTeacher 04:47 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
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| My point is there are thousands of other Playwrights who get the same infringement of THEIR property and they are not able to sue every theatre that messes with their scripts. Yes. I agree that is true, and it's horrible. (And at least you're acknowledging other playwrights now, not just "you, and you, and nothing but you.") So what are you going to do about it, aside from posting angrily on ATC? |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 06:09 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - NYCVoiceTeacher 04:47 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
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| That is a pretty dumb comment. It's an audition. They aren't having a song cut down in a production of the show. In some cases, like a college musical theatre showcase, songs are done with cuts. |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: JAllenC3 05:49 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - NYCVoiceTeacher 04:47 pm EDT 08/08/22 | |
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| I only hope to live long enough to see your play enter the public domain so I can produce a version that changes everything possible while still making it clearly your play... gender & ethnicity of characters, dialogue, setting, etc | |
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| Found clips | |
| Posted by: Kaoru 01:07 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - andPeggy 05:45 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| While the quality of performance is amateurish, I'm surprised with the costumes. Maybe they made them from scratch (free labor from church members) as it's doubtful they have the budget to rent so many costumes that look like the original production. Still piss me off. | |
| Link | Church's Insta/Facebook story clips |
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| re: Found clips | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:43 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: Found clips - Kaoru 01:07 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| This would have been an ideal time for the power grids in Texas to fail. Ah, well. | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: young-walsingham 07:26 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - andPeggy 05:45 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| Perhaps this is a naive question but surely the copyright holders have the authority to shut this down immediately (or even during pre opening marketing)? | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:50 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - young-walsingham 07:26 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| Yes, they do. I doubt they were aware of this until after the first performance (Friday) but I feel confident a cease and desist letter was sent before Saturday's second and final performance. As a practical matter, enjoining the production requires a court to act and all of this happened on a weekend. They will still, of course, have a remedy for money damages. | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:59 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - ryhog 10:50 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| As of last night, the church has publicly cancelled the event and the livestream, but then sent out emails to its guests saying they would still perform the show for free. | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:34 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - Singapore/Fling 11:59 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| Hopefully they will aggressively pursue damages. Performing for free of course means nothing but in this case it actually benefits the rights holder. In copyright cases, the rights holder has the option of seeking statutory damages in lieu of actual damages (i.e., unpaid royalties) and the infringer's profits. Statutory damages can be awarded up to $30k but can increase five-fold if the infringement was willful. Performing after actual notice is obviously evidence of willful infringement. The church's stupidity, it seems, knows no bounds. | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:56 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - ryhog 01:34 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| I hesitate to call it stupidity. Since, after action was taken yesterday they STILL went on with the 2nd performance, but under cover. They knew exactly what they were doing. It's not so much stupidity as it is willful disregard for the law. (And yes, that IS stupidity, but you know what I mean.) Welcome to church, where even sinners against MTI can be saved. Jesus said, "The Scriptures declare, 'My Temple will be a house of prayer,' but you have turned it into a den of thieves." And with that, Jesus entered the room where it happens, overturned the prop tables, drove out Hamilton, Burr, and all the actors. Verily, even the Schuyler sisters and dear Theodosia. Then He proclaimed unto the crowd, "I'll be back." |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 02:58 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - Chromolume 01:56 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| And lo, the lions lay down with the lambs and did sing a hit pop song by Adele that was not used in Moulin Rouge. | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 02:26 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - Chromolume 01:56 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| Perhaps I was not clear enough but my point was that the stupidity is in the church doing something that proves the most devastating fact against them, willfulness. The financial exposure goes from pretty insignificant (up to $30k but with the opportunity to convince the judge it was an act of ignorance such that a much lower amount would be the just penalty) to quite substantial, $150k, with the defense eliminated. I like your Bible Story :-) |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 12:44 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 12:42 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - andPeggy 05:45 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| It reminds me of the old nudie shows in Times Square that did punning take offs on Broadway shows like “My Bare Lady”. It’s kind of porny but with Jesus. | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 01:20 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 01:20 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - singleticket 12:42 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| Porny but with Jesus is pretty much my understanding of Christianity. All those statues of hot, ripped Jesus up on the cross. I'm waiting for a production of JCS that really captures sexy Jesus. | |
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| Oh Christ on a cracker! | |
| Posted by: DistantDrumming 07:54 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
| In reply to: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - andPeggy 05:45 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| You weren't kidding! | |
| Link | Someone like youuuu..... Lion-Jesus! |
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| re: Oh Christ on a cracker! | |
| Posted by: showusyourtalent 11:16 pm EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: Oh Christ on a cracker! - DistantDrumming 07:54 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| What in Tarnation! | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: Deirdre 06:49 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
| In reply to: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - andPeggy 05:45 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| I hope Lin sues the pants off them. | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: Roman 07:46 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - Deirdre 06:49 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| And donates every penny to LGBTQI charities. | |
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| re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 06:55 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - Deirdre 06:49 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| It's funny how "thou shalt not steal" is just being quietly overlooked here? | |
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| My local mortuary is doing an unlicensed production of Fun Home tonight. Should I go see it or | |
| Posted by: keywslt 11:07 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Texas church performance of Hamilton .... - Chromolume 06:55 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| @MrDavidGordon at Twitter. | |
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| re: My local mortuary is doing an unlicensed production of Fun Home tonight. Should I go see it or | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:41 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
| In reply to: My local mortuary is doing an unlicensed production of Fun Home tonight. Should I go see it or - keywslt 11:07 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| I've been trying to find out where the permanent floating illegal production of Guys And Dolls is playing. But as the heat is on, no one's saying anything. | |
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| re: My local mortuary is doing an unlicensed production of Fun Home tonight. Should I go see it or | |
| Posted by: Unhookthestars 12:07 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: My local mortuary is doing an unlicensed production of Fun Home tonight. Should I go see it or - Chromolume 11:41 pm EDT 08/06/22 | |
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| If the heat is on, it surely has to be in Saigon. | |
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| re: My local mortuary is doing an unlicensed production of Fun Home tonight. Should I go see it or | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:10 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
| In reply to: re: My local mortuary is doing an unlicensed production of Fun Home tonight. Should I go see it or - Unhookthestars 12:07 am EDT 08/07/22 | |
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| Yes, I'm sure global warming is affecting them, too. It's too darn hot. | |
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