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| re: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford | |
| Posted by: Thom915 03:51 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
| In reply to: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford - ryhog 02:59 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
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| Well, this will be a challenge for Groban and I hope he pulls it off. If Merrily moves as has been suggested it will mean three Sondheim revivals in a single season on Broadway. (on the other hand I think that Merrily will have to have stupendous reviews at least for the three principals for a move to be likely) | |
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| re: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:30 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford - Thom915 03:51 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
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| I certainly hope they aren't on Broadway and Tony eligible at the same time. It does neither show any good to compete against another high profile Sondheim show at the Tonys. And since the extremely buzzed about and acclaimed and high concept John Doyle Sweeney revival somehow lost the Tony to The Pajama Game... I think this one is even more likely to take it home if it's as good as it could be. And of course Merrily has been waiting for its due for decades, and despite this being based on and remounted from an embarrassingly bad production (that many seemed to love and rave about), it's a tough show to sell... I think it also has a lot of good will behind it with Sondheim's passing, I am willing to bet most Tony voters want to vote for it unless they're given reason not to. And the of course there's Into the Woods... which is beloved as a show and critically acclaimed as a production. It stands a very good chance as well, in any season. But we have had SOOOOO much Into the Woods since the original, including the Lapine revival which won the Tony also... I can see this production just not having the momentum or appearance of the *need* for a Tony win for Revival by the time voting comes around. |
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| re: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 03:57 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford - Thom915 03:51 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
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| Reviews will be helpful for MERRILY, but I think a transfer to Broadway hinges on one question only: Does Daniel Radcliffe want to do it? The off-Broadway production wouldn't have happened without Radcliffe and I think that would be the case with every single production Radcliffe has done in New York and London. Apparently, he sells tickets. And that's all that really matters to producers. |
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| I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 08:45 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:39 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford - JereNYC 03:57 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
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| I genuinely do not think he'd have signed up for this production if he didn't want that to happen. Assuming it goes well at NYTW... a safer place for it to quietly fail or do its respectable run for those who care and then go away. But if it is a ticket hit or a critics hit, why wouldn't he want to take it to Broadway even just for a brief run where he can continue in what would then be a supporter and acclaimed production, and with the likely chance of Tony noms or wins to add to it? He's done already FOUR productions on Broadway and has had excellent reviews, generally strong box office power, and has not gotten a single Tony nomination. This includes starring in a big musical, with one of the biggest male lead roles there are, and he was not nominated for that. He worked very hard for that production (sadly under a misguided director), and I have no doubt he wants a chance at at least a nomination for a Tony nomination, if not a win. And in a Sondheim show? THIS Sondheim show that is such a famous but beloved blight on his record, but that has so many fans anyway, a show many will be rooting for to reestablish itself as a working musical after being a legendary flop? Especially right after Sondheim passes? He's been committed to doing theater more consistently than most movie stars with name power... and he keeps coming back, even off-Broadway. Of course he's not a super star name, but he still has a massive following, and does solid work on stage. I feel confident moving this to Broadway is something he wants if the reception of this production off-broadway warrants a move in the first place. (Again, even with this cast, if it's anything like Maria's direction/production filmed from London... I would say it doesn't need to be on Broadway, but I am genuinely hoping for the best). And if it moves but then doesn't do well on Broadway or the Tonys "snub" him again for it, he will still come off very well, and without the pressure of having opened Merrily's first broadway revival directly ON broadway. |
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| re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway | |
| Posted by: mikem 11:21 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
| In reply to: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway - Chazwaza 08:39 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
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| I am sure Radcliffe would jump at the chance to play Charley Kringas on Broadway, but fortunately I don't think he is choosing his roles based on awards potential. Charley Kringas is not the role to pick if you're laser-focused on getting a Tony nomination. | |
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| re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:21 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway - mikem 11:21 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
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| I disagree about the latter point. If you put Charlie in Featured, the role has a big comic number, which is Featured bait, as well as the chance to show gravitas. | |
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| re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 02:03 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway - Singapore/Fling 12:21 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
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| Radcliffe will be above the title, so he's automatically Leading. ''Merrily'' could petition the Tonys to bump him down to Featured. Only time will tell how the Tonys rule. It seems they oftentimes grant petitions, but they have the discretion to turn them down, too. Meantime, maybe it's a foregone conclusion, but ''Merrily'' still needs to be announced for Broadway. |
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| people have won Tonys for less than what is required of Charley... which is, also, a standout character with fantastic songs/scenes... | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 02:51 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway - Singapore/Fling 12:21 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
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| This isn't him playing Joe... He is one of the 3 central characters, with several fantastic songs to show range and depth in comedy and drama. The most likely to get Tony recognition of course is Mary, but then Charley... the least likely is Frank. But Groff already has 2 Tony noms (and Mendez has a Tony). |
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| re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 12:14 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 12:08 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway - mikem 11:21 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
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| I agree with Mikem. I believe Radcliffe does theater that interests him, and that winning awards isn't what motivates him. Also, Charlie Kringas isn't an especially award-baity role. I can't think of any actor who's been nominated for a notable award for that role. Malcolm Gets got a 1995 Drama Desk nomination and Daniel Evans won a 2001 Olivier Award, but those were for playing Franklin Shepard. Anyway, to get back to Radcliffe, back in 2011, he was passed over for a Tony nomination for starring in ''How to Succeed.'' His reaction? He said he was flattered to be thought of in the same class as that season's nominated actors, which included Norbert Leo Butz, Josh Gad and Andrew Rannells. However, Radcliffe added: ''The thing that shocked me was everybody else’s reaction to me, and how they started treating me — because it was like I lost a relative. In my opinion, it was sweet, but over the top. People would ask me, ‘Are you OK?’ And I’d go, ‘I’m really OK!’ ''I think I speak for 99% of actors when I say that the reason we do this job, while it’s lovely to get recognized by your peers, it’s not the reason why we do it. The people that do this job for awards and recognition are kind of worshiping at the wrong altar.'' (For the record, Radcliffe has 3 Drama Desk nominations: for ''Equus,'' ''How to Succeed'' and ''The Cripple of Inishmaan.'') |
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| re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 02:55 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 02:54 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway - WaymanWong 12:08 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
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| I didn't say he was motivated to do the show for the chance at a Tony. I'm speculating, I think very reasonably, why he would not only want this Merrily to transfer to broadway (assuming it's well received), but be planning for that possibility in taking the role in the first place. Obviously if he was hell bent on a Tony nom for his next show, this wouldn't be what anyone would consider a slam dunk. But I do think if this show is well reviewed and moves to Broadway, there's very little chance that all 3 are not nominated for Tonys. Whether they have a shot to win is another story, but I do absolutely think Radcliffe would get that elusive first Tony nom for this if it transfers. And though I don't think that likely possibility is why he was motivated to take the role, or the sole reason he'd want it to move to Broadway, I am certain he and his team are very aware of this element being at play. | |
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| re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 01:54 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway - Chazwaza 02:54 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
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| I suspect, we, as Tony junkies, give this more much thought and time than Radcliffe ever does. ;) | |
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| Daniel Evans played Charley. Julian Ovenden was Franklin. And . . . | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 02:40 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:34 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
| In reply to: re: I have no doubt Daniel Radcliffe wants to do Merrily on Broadway - WaymanWong 12:08 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
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| . . . it seems to me that Charley is exactly the sort of role for which actors get nominated and sometimes win, with Evans being an example. Ovenden was not nominated. Admittedly, Damian Humbley was not nominated for the first incarnation of the Friedman production. Neither was Mark Umbers. There was some surprise about this at the time. Perhaps a problem with actors getting nominated for playing Charley is the question of category: lead or supporting/featured? And obviously Lonny Price was not nominated for a Tony, but the only Tony nomination for the original production went to Sondheim. The only Drama Desk nominations went to Sondheim. It looks like the Drama Desk decided not to give awards in 1995 for featured actor and actress in a musical. That may be why Adam Heller was not nominated, although some people who probably should have been in featured, had the categories been there, were nominated in leading categories. I would put Charley in supporting or featured. In 1990, both Victor Garber and David Garrison were nominated for Hayes awards as leading actor in a musical for the Arena Stage Merrily. Garrison won the award, in a tie with Scott Morgan for Children With Stones at the Source Theatre. David Eric played Charley in the 1983 Los Angeles production and won an L.A. Weekly award and a Drama-Logue award for his performance. All three leads — Kevin Gudahl (Franklin), Judy Kaplan (Mary), Frank Farrell (Charley) — in the 1985 Pegasus production in Chicago were nominated for Jefferson awards, which in those days were just generally for performance rather than having specific categories, and then there were a certain number of winners. I guess kind of like the Drama Desk awards in the early 1970s. Anyway, Kaplan won one of the awards. (And I just called Charley one of the three leads, while earlier I said that I would put the role in supporting or featured. It's that kind of role.) OK, enough research for tonight. |
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| re: Daniel Evans played Charley. Julian Ovenden was Franklin. And . . . | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:35 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
| In reply to: Daniel Evans played Charley. Julian Ovenden was Franklin. And . . . - AlanScott 02:34 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
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| Admittedly, Damian Humbley was not nominated for the first incarnation of the Friedman production. Neither was Mark Umbers. There was some surprise about this at the time. I was not happy with Umbers either in the original video of the production, or when he played the role in Boston (Huntington THeatre, 2017). So no surprise from me. Humbley, on the other hand, was very good IMO. But also IMO, there was really no overwhelming reason to cast the 3 leads "out of town" for the Boston production, aside from the fact that I assume that the 2 men came with the territory. The Boston actors who played the supporting cast were equally as good. Having Eden Espinosa as Mary was great, but in particular, the 2 men could have been local actors and it might have been even better. |
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| re: Daniel Evans played Charley. Julian Ovenden was Franklin. And . . . | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:26 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Daniel Evans played Charley. Julian Ovenden was Franklin. And . . . - Chromolume 12:35 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
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| I thought Humbley was the best Charley I had seen since Lonny Price, to the degree that I could judge from the film. I thought he could have found a bit more variety, but still I thought he was the best since Price. I had rather mixed feelings about it overall. It certainly didn't convince me that the revision is an improvement rather than a diminishment. |
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| re: Daniel Evans played Charley. Julian Ovenden was Franklin. And . . . | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:24 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Daniel Evans played Charley. Julian Ovenden was Franklin. And . . . - Chromolume 12:35 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
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| Funny, I thought Umbers was the best thing about that production... which sounds like faint praise, since I don't think it's a great version of the show, but I did find him quite compelling. | |
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| Wow, Alan, you really did your research | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 03:46 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 03:33 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
| In reply to: Daniel Evans played Charley. Julian Ovenden was Franklin. And . . . - AlanScott 02:34 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
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| I usually focus on N.Y. or London awards of note (not so much L.A., D.C. or Chicago). ... And I stand corrected about Evans. The one time I've seen Evans on Broadway is in the 2008 revival of ''Sunday in the Park With George,'' where he played the title role. I assumed he played Frank in ''Merrily'' because he won Best Actor. I always think of Frank as being the lead role and Charlie being supporting. ''Merrily'' is the tale of 3 friends, but for me, the story revolves more around Frank's arc and how he changes the most (i.e., sells out, rationalizes). |
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| re: Wow, Alan, you really did your research | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:31 pm EDT 08/24/22 | |
| In reply to: Wow, Alan, you really did your research - WaymanWong 03:33 am EDT 08/24/22 | |
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| It wasn't really all that much work. Just had to check on a couple of names I didn't remember and then check on the relevant awards. The first part was easy because of the info on ovrtur, and the second was pretty easy because of ProQuest. It took a bit of time, but less than I have spent on answers to a lot of other questions here over the years. I agree that the show revolves around Frank's arc. Charley is a great role, and perhaps even a bigger role than some roles that I would consider leads, but functionally he is a supporting character. |
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| re: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:21 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford - JereNYC 03:57 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
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| Hard to imagine a Merrily that truly hinges on the guy playing Charley. That, and that awful set. |
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| re: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford | |
| Posted by: Thom915 05:28 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Boroff: Sweeney: Groban+Ashford - JereNYC 03:57 pm EDT 08/23/22 | |
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| Radcliffe will have to be part of the deal to make the move feasible, true enough (part of the reason may be that I for one have never been really disappointed in a Radcliffe performance, perhaps in the play he was in butalways felt his performance was worth seeing) but in order to really make a transfer and not just an OOB extension viable, the reviews must be really really good. he is not a Hugh Jackman nor a Daniel Craig. His first few outings in theater maybe but now he is just a star not a phenomenon. :) | |
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