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| Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain | |
| Last Edit: Ann 08:29 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
| Posted by: Ann 08:26 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| Those more knowledgeable and experienced than me (I?) so frequently say the original was the best - it works the best and makes for a great show. But the original bombed on Broadway. Is Merrily just destined to be a "not for everyone" show (with a phenomenal score), or would/could it be more successful than the original run, even if fashioned after the original run? I've see three productions and loved them all (yes, I'm guilty of saying the London production must have solved the problems, because it worked - for me, in person; and I really liked the Fiasco production). But I think it's that I love the score so much, it's a completely pleasurable time in the theatre to hear it performed, and the songs individually illuminate the characters for me. I guess I gloss over the (important, I know) details for this one. I would love to see a new production of the original version, but I really don't think I ever will have the opportunity. |
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| re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain | |
| Posted by: NeoAdamite 06:03 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain - Ann 08:26 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| Not every great work of art has broad appeal, and this is one of them. It presents many hurdles, each of which takes out some segment of the potential audience: unlikeable main character, underwritten female lead, hard to follow plot. Then there's the questionable psychology - if this is the tragedy of a selfish man, why should we care? Those who can overlook these issues find it moving; those who can't, don't. (I am among the former.) It will ever be thus. The Fiasco production, as an experiment, added a book scene from the original play to flesh out Frank's relationship with his family, and it helped; but I don't know if that's a long-term solution. |
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| re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain | |
| Posted by: bmc 11:11 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain - Ann 08:26 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| I attended the first previews in NYC and I loved it. Lonny Price got the biggest hand at the Curtain calls, but for me the standout Was Ann Morrison. With some glitches in Act one, Act 2 went smoothly and the the last 2 numbers were very moving. And as for the overture,' I later remarked( HERE?) that it sounded as if SJS kept a picture of Jule Styne 'neath his pillow while working of the show (Tho, of course, Mr.Tunick was responsible for that great overture.) | |
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| re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:37 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain - bmc 11:11 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| And oh, that Overture. SO magnificent. But then, cut way down for the revised version (and leading directly into the title song instead of having its own big ending). And cut down MUCH MUCH further for the Menier version. (I assume that's the version we'll get this time around, but hey, maybe they'll just cut the whole thing this time???) Ugh. |
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| re: "Merrily" Overture | |
| Posted by: selmerboy 04:16 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain - Chromolume 11:37 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| I recently came across this interview with MD/Arranger Arnold Gross on a podcast where he takes credit for much of the overture. He says he was brought in by Tunick to ghost the "Now You Know" dance for Tom Fay and gave it its Latin flavor. Make of it what you will. (he starts talking about Merrily about 37 minutes in) | |
| Link | Life in the Pit interview with Arnold Gross |
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| re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain my thoughts | |
| Posted by: Musicals54 02:54 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain - Chromolume 11:37 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| Yes! Great score! Some have said it doesn’t work because it is backwards. I have heard that at one rehearsal they tried it chronology. Heard they felt it still didn’t work. My Problem We don’t see the transformations between scenes. And that is what interests me. Still always a show to see and feel | |
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| re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain | |
| Posted by: peter3053 02:51 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain - Chromolume 11:37 am EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| Surely it's the most successful flop of all time. Does a year go by when there isn't a major revival somewhere? It can't be just Sondheim fans keeping all those productions going. It works, and it challenges people while moving them. |
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| is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:51 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain - peter3053 02:51 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| I think it's actually one of his most produced works... I'm guessing (of the shows he wrote music & lyrics for) it would be Into the Woods, Sweeney Todd, Company, Assassins and Merrily as the top 5. | |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:23 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - Chazwaza 06:51 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| Are you just going off your gut for that, or did you do some research? It's a shame we don't have a resource like The Sondheim Review to give us up to date stats. That said, and of course these things will fluctuate by year, but Forum is a big crowd pleaser that I'd wager gets produced more than shows like Assassins and Merrily. |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 09:12 am EDT 08/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - Singapore/Fling 10:23 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| In Chicago from 1997 through 2017, I can only recall 2 productions of Merrily -- a not-so-good college production and an excellent non-equity production with Jessie Mueller and her brother. However, from 2018 through 2022, there were also 2 productions of Merrily -- another not-so-good college production and the outstanding equity production that PlazaBoy cited in this thread. Overall in the Chicago area, I would not put Merrily and Assassins in the top 5 over Night Music, Funny Thing/Forum, and Sunday/Park/George. Just my opinion based on anecdotal observations. |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 09:58 am EDT 08/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - BroadwayTonyJ 09:12 am EDT 08/26/22 | |
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| You noted the observed evidence on Merrily and Assassins... you are telling me Night Music, Forum and Sundays were all produced more than twice each in the last 4 years (2 of those years being theater-less pandemic)?! I find that a bit hard to believe. Night Music is a popular to like but not to produce show. Also, Chicago is Chicago... in SoCal I have been aware of precisely 1 production of Night music in the last 10 years, and 1 of Forum, and 1 of Sunday that was cancelled for covid and never rescheduled. Passion has been done here, from what I've seen, than those shows. But I also am not aware of all the SoCal productions. But suffice to say, neither of us are present flawless data or even any research, ha. |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 10:18 am EDT 08/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - Chazwaza 09:58 am EDT 08/26/22 | |
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| No, what I was saying is that overall (1989 -- 2022, which are my theatre-going years), I would not put Merrily and Assassins in the top 5 for the Chicago area over Night Music, Forum, Sunday. I admitted that in the last 5 years Merrily has been done twice in my area, which is probably indicative of a resurgence of interest. I also admitted that my observation was anecdotally based. Keep in mind that to Chicagoans, the phrase "Chicago area" includes Milwaukee, WI and Muenster, IN because the major Chicago newspapers often review productions in those cities when Chicago performers are featured in them. |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 11:50 am EDT 08/26/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 11:31 am EDT 08/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - BroadwayTonyJ 10:18 am EDT 08/26/22 | |
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| Don't worry I know that we are both just working with anecdotal observation and personal intake/memory of that intake of this kind of info. I was definitely speaking mainly about the last 5-10 years, not since 1989, ha. I will say that Assassins seems to be done by nearly every community theater (at least the ones who don't cater to kids and families primarily), and every college (be it a MainStage or a student production), and I seeing casting notices or ads for productions regularly. The hot button topic and the small cast, evenly split in gender, that doesn't require extraordinary singing ability, doesn't use choreography (more what I'd call musical staging), doesn't inherently present a design challenge for sets or costumes, is small and intimate and buzz worthy... has made Assassins extremely popular to produce as far as the shows you wouldn't expect to be popular go (I'm sure it doesn't compare to Seussical or Addams Family or Sound of Music... or even Into the Woods, but it seems to be very firmly in the national theater repertoire now, especially since the 2004 revival -- but we've also had 2 major NYC revivals since the 2004 Broadway, one of which even garnered a cast album). I think for any given person like me who feels like he sees Merrily produced regularly but not ALNM, there's a person like you who has seen the opposite trend. But I think ITW, Sweeney, and Company and in the top 5 without question, and Assassins is very popular - whether it makes top 5 against ALNM and Sunday I don't know. I bet ALNM had a surge after the revival, and then a dip, and I bet it will see a surge now with Sondheim's passing. In the Los Angeles area alone there was already one ALNM production this season (which I hated) and there's a high profile production of it coming up at Pasadena Playhouse in the Spring. That's already double the frequency I'm used to for this show. |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: WWriter 08:46 pm EDT 08/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - Chazwaza 11:31 am EDT 08/26/22 | |
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| Assassins evenly split in gender? 8 main men to 2 main women? I'm confused | |
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| my bad | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 04:56 pm EDT 09/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - WWriter 08:46 pm EDT 08/26/22 | |
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| Sorry I don't know why I said that, I know it's not. Ha. But it has an ensemble that includes women, so it's not just 2 women. But yes, it's not evenly split. However it has character roles for all of the men (except perhaps the desire to cast a more leading man type as Wilkes), so I think it offers flexibility and opportunity for a lot of male actors in any given area for a regional/community or school production, which can be helpful for casting effectively when doing a musical in those venues. |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: bmc 11:23 pm EDT 08/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - WWriter 08:46 pm EDT 08/26/22 | |
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| I attended an undergrad performance of ASSASSINS in which as female student was cast as the Balladeer so they could another girl in the cast | |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:25 pm EDT 08/27/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - bmc 11:23 pm EDT 08/26/22 | |
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| I saw a collegeAssassins years ago that cast a female Proprietor. But she was very much a "soprano" and the music sounded awful in her voice up there. No sense of "bite" that you'd potentially get with a lower voice. I think if you're going to cast like that, you HAVE to find a way to transpose the music so it keeps a "talkier" feel. | |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:04 am EDT 08/27/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - bmc 11:23 pm EDT 08/26/22 | |
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| That's still a relatively unbalanced gender split. And then the ensemble is 5 men (if we count the Proprietor) and 2 women. | |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:40 pm EDT 08/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - Chazwaza 11:31 am EDT 08/26/22 | |
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| [Assassins]...doesn't require extraordinary singing ability Ok, that got to me. As a music director who's done 3 productions of Assassins, I respectfully have to ask, what the hell are you talking about? :-) |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 04:54 pm EDT 09/02/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - Chromolume 08:40 pm EDT 08/26/22 | |
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| I stand very much by this statement... and I am also quite intimately familiar with it. While it benefits from excellent and/or very skilled singers, it is not required for the score to be pulled off effectively the way Sunday, Passion, and Sweeney are, for example. |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 11:31 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - Singapore/Fling 10:23 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| Not so much gut as regular observation of regional and local productions around the country. As an actor and director I am regularly seeing casting breakdowns around America, and reading theater "news", and as a fan I am also fairly aware. By no means scientific, and I'm not basing it off numbers. t But I do think those 5 shows are his most produced currently and for several years now. While Forum is a popular crowd pleaser... it is not nearly as popular to produce now or in the last 10 years if my observation is accurate. It's not an easy show to pull off and it has a LOT of men, and while the men are broad stroke comedic types, so are the women and there are only really 2 of them so that comes off much worse to today's audiences. I know it's still popular, but I don't think it's nearly as much as it was, and the 5 I listed are now staples of schools, community and regional theaters. But it's very possible I'm mistaken on 1 or two of them. But of course Into the Woods must be number 1 regardless of whether or not Assassins or Merrily are in the top 5 as I think they are. I miss the Sondheim Review. I am so lucky it was actively in print (when print was a thing) and curious 13 or 14 year old me could find it on the stand at Barnes and Noble to help fan the flame of my Sondheim obsession. |
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| re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:43 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: is it possible Merrily is in Sondheim's top 5 most produced shows? - Singapore/Fling 10:23 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| It's a shame we don't have a resource like The Sondheim Review to give us up to date stats. I miss the Sondheim Review. And whatever it invented itself to be for a short time after that. The "Everything Sondheim" website, which was originally supposed to be a substitute, and is now supposedly being curated by Signature Theatre, isn't really very active. I don't think anyone really has the time to put into it. |
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| re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain | |
| Posted by: Musicals54 03:19 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain - peter3053 02:51 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| I'd say it is a tie between Candide and Merrily. Candide really is operetta and Merrily musical comedy so call it a tie. | |
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| Rocky Horror... | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:53 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Another "Merrily" thread - people, please explain - Musicals54 03:19 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| It flopped on Broadway with only a 45 performance run. It was popular first in LA (running 10 months), but if we are going by broadway... Rocky Horror is enormously popular to produce and has been for decades, besides obviously having an incredibly popular film too. As far as flops go, that's pretty good. | |
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| re: Rocky Horror... | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:49 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: Rocky Horror... - Chazwaza 06:53 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| besides obviously having an incredibly popular film too Not "besides." If the film hadn't existed and become the overwhelming cult classic it became, complete with the shoutouts and the rice/toilet paper/et al, and the dressing up and the shows in front of the screen, etc - if none of that had happened, no one would even remember the stage show. The film is THE ENTIRE reason that the show is still known. |
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| re: Rocky Horror... | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 11:35 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 11:34 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: re: Rocky Horror... - Chromolume 10:49 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| Yes that's true. I didn't mean "besides" quite that way. We of course do not know what the future of the show would have been in amateur production... it did produce a fantastic cast album, and had storied runs in LA and London, so it's not like it had no cool credit or interest or accessibility to the score besides the movie. I do actually think the movie is the best version the musical could hope to be... it is perfect. But that being said, I think the score is served better and sounds better on the cast album. But if I never heard that album, I'd adore the score as it sounds in the movie. Of course, it's quite possible that if it weren't for the stage-films of Into the Woods (or Sunday, for that matter), it wouldn't have experienced nearly the popularity it grew to grow and enjoy. But who knows. |
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| re: Rocky Horror... | |
| Posted by: jjbkvm 07:19 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
| In reply to: Rocky Horror... - Chazwaza 06:53 pm EDT 08/25/22 | |
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| I’d pay to see a well sung well staged production with or without a star. | |
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