Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:54 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. - singleticket 12:27 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
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| Just to clarify in case there is confusion: The WWI audience saw it in no context since they didn't see it at all. It was written for Funny Girl. As a Jew, I find nothing offensive about that part of the number. And I don't even feel it would need context or at least that it should need context. It's the anti-German parts of the song that are offensive — "With every poppity-pop / Some Kraut took a drop / American boys are always such straight shooters" — especially in the context of what went on here during WWI. Do those need context? Giving context just makes it worse. But perhaps there should be footage of and headlines about German Americans being persecuted during WWI. To address something in another post: Dutch comedy was to an overwhelming degree Jewish comedy. The use of Dutch to describe it was derived from Deutsch, yes, but it was Jewish comedy with characters who were almost always clearly meant to be perceived as Jewish and performed overwhelmingly by Jews. Then there was Jewface material, also generally written and performed by Jews. This was often edgier and sometimes anti-Semitic in the ways that groups writing and performing about themselves can be. There has been a movement to reclaim it as an important part of Jewish theatrical history. |
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| re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 03:18 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 03:13 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. - AlanScott 02:54 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
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| To address something in another post: Dutch comedy was to an overwhelming degree Jewish comedy. The use of Dutch to describe it was derived from Deutsch, yes, but it was Jewish comedy with characters who were almost always clearly meant to be perceived as Jewish and performed overwhelmingly by Jews. I think you're probably right in terms of later vaudeville. And Weber and Fields were the definitive Dutch act. But the Dutch comic turn was very much an ethnic comedy based on German-American patois (see "Max and Mortiz" which inspired the Katzenjammer Kids). I don't know if I'd agree that before WWI the Dutch Act was meant to be perceived as Jewish. Post-WWI perhaps because all things culturally German were somewhat erased from American popular culture. There was also a literal "Dutch" craze with clogs and windmills in American vaudeville and popular culture around the turn of the century. |
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| Link | Ach, those Katzenjammer Kids! |
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| re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 03:17 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. - singleticket 03:13 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
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| I thought we were talking about Dutch comedy in theatre. | |
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| re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. | |
| Posted by: singleticket 03:30 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. - AlanScott 03:17 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
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| We are. I'm not convinced by your point that the Dutch comics were always meant to be perceived as Jewish. Perhaps under Weber and Fields but to a great extent I think they were inspired by the patois of German-American immigrants. | |
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| re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 03:47 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. - singleticket 03:30 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
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| Well, I didn't write "always." I wrote "almost always." I'm a great hedger. A character like Simon O'Hara in Naughty Marietta has a stereotypical Irish name, not a Jewish name, but the role was played with a heavy Yiddish accent as Dutch comedy. That was part of the joke: Simon O'Hara is a Jew who thinks he can pass just by changing his name. I'm making it more serious than it was intended to be, or at least than it was consciously intended it to be. But I bring up this character because you can't always tell by looking at the page. Hard-Boiled Herman in Rose-Marie is another example. Not necessarily Jewish on the page, but Jewish onstage. Of course, revivals often drop these things. |
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| re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 04:14 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 04:05 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. - AlanScott 03:47 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
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| Those are very interesting characters that I'm not familiar with. Early 20th century American operetta is something I'd love to explore in greater depth. Back to Dutch characters on stage. I'm not familiar with other Dutch acts besides Weber and Fields so your point about perception might be correct. One thing I find it important to remember is how central German-American immigrant culture was to American popular culture before WWI. After WWI German-Americans tended to anglicize their names and their centrality to American popular culture was basically erased. Yet Americans of German-American heritage remain probably one of the largest demographics of the United States. |
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| re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 04:05 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
| In reply to: re: “Private Schwartz” OK, I’ll Bite…. - AlanScott 03:47 pm EST 11/17/22 | |
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| I will hedge. For the sake of argument and since I can't prove it, you can change "almost always" to "often." Another example is Smith and Dale. Waspy names (changed from birth names) but Jewish performers who played Jewish characters. |
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| Link | Smith and Dale - Dr. Kronkheit and His Only Living Patient |
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