Threaded Order Chronological Order
| jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: westech 01:05 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| At "Ain't No Mo" Queen Latifah announced to the audience, in a pre-show warm up , that Jordan Cooper was the youngest playwright ever on Broadway. The play "Warp" which played at the Ambassador, an ahead of its time science fiction comic strip extravaganza which had been a success at the Organic Theatre in Chicago, was co-authored by Stuart Gordon (who later became a horror film director) and Lenny Kleinfeld--they were 26 and 25 when the play opened, younger than the 27 year old Cooper. I think there are other examples of younger playwrights.... | |
| reply to this message |
| Ntozake Shange was 27 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 04:26 pm EST 12/19/22 | |
| In reply to: jordan cooper- not the youngest - westech 01:05 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| Unless I am confused, Ntozake Shange was 27 when the original Broadway production of For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide / When the Rainbow Is Enuf opened. She would turn 28 a few weeks after the opening, but she was 27 at the time of the opening. | |
| reply to this message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest: background | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 05:22 am EST 12/19/22 | |
| In reply to: jordan cooper- not the youngest - westech 01:05 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| The production had used the 'youngest playwright' language for a while - at some point someone must have fact-checked and realized this wasn't true, and they changed the language to 'youngest black/African-American playwright ' in Broadway History. obviously Queen Latifah didnt get the memo. Now technically, only technically, this is not true either. The first all black show in 'Broadway' history was the musical CLORINDY, OR THE ORIGIN OF THE CAKEWALK at the Casino Theatre Roof Gaarden in 1898. The score was by Will Marion Cook, and the libretto by 26 year old poet and novelist Paul Laurence Dunbar. But that was a musical. As for plays, Mr. Cooper does indeed seem to be the youngest. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:14 am EST 12/19/22 | |
| In reply to: jordan cooper- not the youngest - westech 01:05 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| Nick Blaemire and John Gardiner were in their early 20s when their play Glory Days was produced on Bway. John Driver was 27 when his play Ride the Wins was produced on Bway. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 08:01 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 07:59 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| In reply to: jordan cooper- not the youngest - westech 01:05 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| Also do they just mean writer of plays, or any writer? First thing that comes to mind is the writers of Six who i think were both 27 when Six opened on Broadway. I mean, Sondheim was 27 when West Side Story opened. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:13 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - Chazwaza 07:59 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| It's youngest black writer. How many times to we have to go through this? I am probably wrong but it seems like the frequency with which we drag the same original sin through the internet has increased exponentially since, I don't know, Covid? Yes, his playbill bio is wrong. Yes, it is hyperbole. Is this something new? Are we holding this very talented young writer to a different standard? We should be celebrating the talent, in my opinion, not nit-picking. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 10:04 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 09:54 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - ryhog 08:13 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| oh come on. That was my one and only comment on this topic, and I was just asking how it was defined. It's really not a big deal. I don't even know if these claims are that he's the youngest ever, or the "youngest on broadway" as his wiki says, which is accurate if you mean plays *currently* running on Broadway (which, at his age, is of course a HUGE deal, but it's also an interesting claim given that in another season a 40 year old might be "the youngest writer on broadway"). But given the post we are all replying to, it seems like this has been claimed by Queen Latifah to the audience live, and in Cooper's own bio. I don't know why celebrating one person has to mean erasing or forgetting the achievements of others. To say he's the youngest writer *ever* produced on broadway (not currently, or not even youngest black writer ever, but "youngest ever") is to say "no one else his age or younger has been produced on broadway", which is to say that since there ARE people his age or younger who have been, they and their achievement no longer exist... isn't it? If we are being dramatic or hyperbolic, which it seems we are happy to be. But dramatic though it is, it's not inaccurate. And why is it that anyone [who cares to notice or mention it] is "nit-picking"? Or worse --as you're clearly implying-- by pointing out a fact? I'm thrilled to celebrate Cooper for the many things he's achieved and the many ways it's amazing and notable... it's notable even if it's "youngest writer since ____ decades ago" or "youngest playwright", or "one of the youngest writers ever" or "youngest in ___# of decades", and OF COURSE "youngest black writer" ... but why must anyone also be asked to celebrate him for something that isn't true? Let alone to perpetuate the false claim? That you're even asking if we are "holding him to a different standard" implies you think it's racism. What different standard? What other standard is there? Was there a white writer recently claiming to be something that wasn't accurate? Has there ever been on this board that you recall? Or in the theater community? Did everyone celebrate Lucy Prebble (the white writer) as the youngest ever produced on broadway when Enron opened, despite that she was 28 and not 27 (as is the age when Cooper claims it) or 26 (or whatever the actual youngest was, or maybe it was just multiple 27 year olds but no one younger than 27 yet?)? No, I don't recall that. But open to the examples you have of this different standard. I just don't know where you're jumping to this from. I didn't bring it up, I didn't even realize this had been claimed about him until I read it here, but yes I do wish people would check the facts before making claims like that. Hell, I was ranting when that kind of thing back when the Grease casting TV show "You're the One That I Want" kept calling Kathleen Marshall, one of the judges on the show and there as a Broadway director, "Tony winning director Kathleen Marshall", which is absolutely and willfully misleading - she is a Tony winner who is a director, she hasn't won a Tony for directing (though of course I'd probably be happy to have the same manipulated claim for me if I were her, however this is just a question of order of words, not actually presenting false claim -- Cooper's claim is not false at all as long as it includes the full claim of being the youngest black playwright, or the youngest currently on broadway). I think there is also a common thing lately of erasing what's happened before to emphasize what's happening now. I don't think that's good. But again I didn't consider this with Cooper, had I heard that claim or read it I likely would have taken it as true and not looked into it, I didn't have any 26 year old broadway writers in mind. But maybe that's why the people pointing it out as wrong are... because I, and most people, would just accept it as true even if it technically isn't. I also don't know what being the youngest by a year or 2 means. He's not 18, he's 27. He beat Lorraine Hansberry by 2 years... if we're getting down to it... and under VERY different circumstances. It's like releasing box office numbers without adjusting for ticket prices. Those 2 years for Lorraine Hansberry in the 1950s probably count for 25 years in today's world. Cooper was/is also a big success at a notably young age as a tv writer (for anyone, of any skin color). He's one of the youngest TV showrunners ever. He also got out of New School and got repped by one of the most powerful agents in hollywood... this is very rare, for anyone... and that agent had the ability, clout, and motivation to give his play to Lee Daniels. Because of Daniels, he got a writing job without any former TV work or produced work (in any medium, if I'm not mistaken) or assistant jobs... this is very difficult and rare to do. Who knows, maybe any of the 5 black writers who had their broadway debuts when we came back from Covid would have been the youngest had they gotten a powerful agent and connections with an extremely influential producer right out of school. I can't say, and I am not going to look up the careers of all of those black playwrights let alone the non-black ones who were 28-35 by the time their work was produced on Broadway. None of these facts take away from Cooper's immense and wide talent, or the achievement of this play getting to Broadway, when he's 27 or any age really - and not only because he's black and previous to this play not a major playwright of note -- but also because of the kind of play it is (regardless of the subject and premise and cast of characters, it is a sketch play, which is very rare to be produced on Broadway and very rare to succeed). -- On the flip side, from my post you replied to... would anyone Sondheim's age (27, or 26 or 25 when he got involved with WSS) EVER have been in his position to be considered or produced had he not had Oscar Hammerstein as his mentor? Almost definitely not. And of course having a solo writing piece produced rather than being part of a writing team with a big established writer, is a different thing and bigger deal. I just wanted to define what was meant. Cooper's play being produced when he is the young age of 27 is amazing and notable, but let's just celebrate what is true, there's plenty to celebrate and plenty to note as a notable achievement! (even without regard for whether I think the thing being celebrated is entirely relevant, and without even bothering to put it in any context at all). And we can celebrate the talent and achievement and milestone AND take some issue about claiming something that isn't true. And should be able to do it with non-white people without implied accusations of racism being put out there. Or, maybe, yeah, sure... anyone who realizes he isn't the youngest or only 27 year old (if 27 were even the youngest aged writer to open on bway) and says it is obviously racist and hates his success and wants to take him down! |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: mikem 09:44 am EST 12/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - Chazwaza 09:54 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| Cooper's tweet on the subject from a few weeks ago says that he is the youngest playwright in Broadway history. Broadway.com says in an article about an interview with him that he is the youngest after Lorraine Hansberry, and I'm guessing that Broadway.com got that info from Cooper. If you google, "youngest Broadway playwright," the two names that come up are Cooper's and Hansberry's, but if you read Hansberry's official sites, they say she is the youngest playwright to receive the New York Drama Critics Circle Award for Best Play. I'm guessing Cooper googled, saw Hansberry's name come up, knew he was younger than Hansberry, and didn't actually read the articles about Hansberry. Very sloppy, but not the worst crime in the world. But a bit annoying, because now it is all over the internet that Cooper is the youngest Broadway playwright, including at allegedly reputable sites like the Washington Post. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 02:02 pm EST 12/19/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 02:00 pm EST 12/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - mikem 09:44 am EST 12/19/22 | |
|
|
|
| Yeah, and that's how it becomes a fact even if it's false. Ironic as this kind of thing is something left (of which I'm apart) loves to complain about the right doing. Cooper has so much success, even regardless of this play or when it closes, and so much praise and amount of public support from celebrities, it seems pretty disingenuous to claim this if it's not true. Especially knowing, as we all do and he surely does if he thinks about it, that saying it outloud or online will mean it will stand as fact for 99% of people hearing/reading it (as it would have for me). He and his play are very notable... he has achieved so much... but being the youngest playwright in Broadway history is not one of his achievements, and that fact takes nothing away from him (but claiming it does, if you think about it, take something away from the person(s) who are that, and the other several people his own age when they were produced on bway). anyway, there's not much need to keep talking about this. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 05:59 pm EST 12/19/22 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 05:54 pm EST 12/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - Chazwaza 02:00 pm EST 12/19/22 | |
|
|
|
| How about youngest playwright of color to have a financially successful play (i.e. a hit) on Broadway? Hansbury probably. Not African-American or American, but as a woman, there's Shelagh Delaney's "A Taste of Honey", which was successful enough on both sides of the pond to get a film version, produced on Broadway when she was like 21. All wonderful, but what's even better is a long sustained career which unfortunately Hansbury was denied by her health. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 07:42 pm EST 12/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - PlayWiz 05:54 pm EST 12/19/22 | |
|
|
|
| I'm not sure good any of these rankings and denotations do, or even what many of them mean, or what context they are or are not being put in. Seems like a pointless endeavor. Can't we just celebrate what things are? I'm not going to see Ain't No Mo because Cooper is a 27 year old or because he's black or because he's black and 27, or because Lee Daniels decided to produce the premiere play of a 27 year old TV showrunner who went to The New School and got a life-changingly-powerful agent, I'm going because it sounds exciting and interesting and funny and I have heard excellent things. Just as I'm not not going to the work of Dominique Morisseau because she's 44 and black, or Sarah Ruhl because she's white, or anyone's next play because their last play was a financial success or wasn't, or because it was a commercial run that closes in 10 weeks or less or a non-profit run that played its scheduled 10 weeks. Etc So much of these things are circumstantial and say very little about the play or the writer. I have heard nothing but terrible things about The Collaboration but it just extended even before NYC critical reviews come out. It's all theater. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| 25 and younger was once not all that uncommon | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 01:29 am EST 12/19/22 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 01:17 am EST 12/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - Chazwaza 09:54 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| If you are really interested (or anyone else is interested), George M. Cohan was 22 and Noël Coward was 25. Moss Hart was 25 when Jonica, for which he wrote the book, was produced on Broadway. He was still 25 when Once in a Lifetime opened a few months later. There have probably been others 25 and under, mostly in the fairly distant past when people often got started younger. EDIT: Lorenz Hart, Richard Rodgers, Cole Porter, Oscar Hammerstein . . . all of them under 25. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:20 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - Chazwaza 09:54 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| I was not intending to go after you individually and I certainly was not insinuating anything. My reaction was to the amount of attention this error has gotten on the internet over the last few weeks including, I believe, here. (And again, I may be wrong.) If all of this has flown under your radar until now, then I'm sorry I chose you to react to. Cooper is provocative and a disruptive force (in a good way, in my view). In that sense, kinda reminds me of Larry Kramer some. Some people react negatively to that and in this case they seem to be reacting negatively to every perceived mistake including the horrible sin of trying to drum up business for a really good show that was marketing incompetently. That said, I appreciate the time and thought that went into what you wrote above. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:18 am EST 12/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - ryhog 11:20 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| Thank you, and I appreciate that response - i've been unaware of the chat about it online I guess. And I agree about Cooper and goodwill toward efforts to drum up interest in the show, I'm all for that and for whatever works to give it a longer life -- as I was for anything KPOP could have done at that point -- aside, of course, from willfully misrepresenting what Green wrote in his review, but that's not for this thread, and for many things that deserved a longer chance to find an audience or be seen, whether they were or would have been my taste or not). I worry for it/him that there is SUCH a flood of it in such a short time that it will have a bad mix of not being especially effective AND burning people out on the overkill. And maybe that's also why I'm more inclined to chime in when something seems like an easily verified claim before throwing it on the pile of stuff about this play and Cooper. There's already so much. And he's already SO successful and has so much attention, it's like... no need to beef up a claim that isn't actually accurate. But I really hope it works to extend the show long enough for me to be able to see it, I'm dying to - whether or not I am as taken with it as so many people (I've also heard some trusted friends with more mixed and reserved praise for it as an actual play/experience, but either way I really want to see it). |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: ablankpage 08:31 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - ryhog 08:13 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| No one is nit-picking. This board frequently discusses the ins and outs of Broadway history. As you yourself mentioned, there is an inaccuracy in his bio. westech and Chazwaza discussed other young/er writers. I'm not sure who is holding him to a different standard or discrediting his talent? It's simply an exchange of knowledge on a theme, extraordinarily normal on this board. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:07 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| In reply to: jordan cooper- not the youngest - westech 01:05 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| this has been rehearsed already. He is the youngest black playwright as it says in some but not all places. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: Commopics 03:13 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - ryhog 01:07 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| The mistake spreads most commonly from Cooper's own bio, as printed in the playbill. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 05:39 am EST 12/19/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - Commopics 03:13 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
|
|
|
| As above - this was language based on the original press/advertising campaign. About 10 days or so ago this was corrected in advertising, but Playbills are printed in advance ... monthly. If the play makes it to January thsi would be correcetd too, I am sure. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.105645 seconds.