| re: jordan cooper- not the youngest | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 10:04 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 09:54 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
| In reply to: re: jordan cooper- not the youngest - ryhog 08:13 pm EST 12/18/22 | |
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| oh come on. That was my one and only comment on this topic, and I was just asking how it was defined. It's really not a big deal. I don't even know if these claims are that he's the youngest ever, or the "youngest on broadway" as his wiki says, which is accurate if you mean plays *currently* running on Broadway (which, at his age, is of course a HUGE deal, but it's also an interesting claim given that in another season a 40 year old might be "the youngest writer on broadway"). But given the post we are all replying to, it seems like this has been claimed by Queen Latifah to the audience live, and in Cooper's own bio. I don't know why celebrating one person has to mean erasing or forgetting the achievements of others. To say he's the youngest writer *ever* produced on broadway (not currently, or not even youngest black writer ever, but "youngest ever") is to say "no one else his age or younger has been produced on broadway", which is to say that since there ARE people his age or younger who have been, they and their achievement no longer exist... isn't it? If we are being dramatic or hyperbolic, which it seems we are happy to be. But dramatic though it is, it's not inaccurate. And why is it that anyone [who cares to notice or mention it] is "nit-picking"? Or worse --as you're clearly implying-- by pointing out a fact? I'm thrilled to celebrate Cooper for the many things he's achieved and the many ways it's amazing and notable... it's notable even if it's "youngest writer since ____ decades ago" or "youngest playwright", or "one of the youngest writers ever" or "youngest in ___# of decades", and OF COURSE "youngest black writer" ... but why must anyone also be asked to celebrate him for something that isn't true? Let alone to perpetuate the false claim? That you're even asking if we are "holding him to a different standard" implies you think it's racism. What different standard? What other standard is there? Was there a white writer recently claiming to be something that wasn't accurate? Has there ever been on this board that you recall? Or in the theater community? Did everyone celebrate Lucy Prebble (the white writer) as the youngest ever produced on broadway when Enron opened, despite that she was 28 and not 27 (as is the age when Cooper claims it) or 26 (or whatever the actual youngest was, or maybe it was just multiple 27 year olds but no one younger than 27 yet?)? No, I don't recall that. But open to the examples you have of this different standard. I just don't know where you're jumping to this from. I didn't bring it up, I didn't even realize this had been claimed about him until I read it here, but yes I do wish people would check the facts before making claims like that. Hell, I was ranting when that kind of thing back when the Grease casting TV show "You're the One That I Want" kept calling Kathleen Marshall, one of the judges on the show and there as a Broadway director, "Tony winning director Kathleen Marshall", which is absolutely and willfully misleading - she is a Tony winner who is a director, she hasn't won a Tony for directing (though of course I'd probably be happy to have the same manipulated claim for me if I were her, however this is just a question of order of words, not actually presenting false claim -- Cooper's claim is not false at all as long as it includes the full claim of being the youngest black playwright, or the youngest currently on broadway). I think there is also a common thing lately of erasing what's happened before to emphasize what's happening now. I don't think that's good. But again I didn't consider this with Cooper, had I heard that claim or read it I likely would have taken it as true and not looked into it, I didn't have any 26 year old broadway writers in mind. But maybe that's why the people pointing it out as wrong are... because I, and most people, would just accept it as true even if it technically isn't. I also don't know what being the youngest by a year or 2 means. He's not 18, he's 27. He beat Lorraine Hansberry by 2 years... if we're getting down to it... and under VERY different circumstances. It's like releasing box office numbers without adjusting for ticket prices. Those 2 years for Lorraine Hansberry in the 1950s probably count for 25 years in today's world. Cooper was/is also a big success at a notably young age as a tv writer (for anyone, of any skin color). He's one of the youngest TV showrunners ever. He also got out of New School and got repped by one of the most powerful agents in hollywood... this is very rare, for anyone... and that agent had the ability, clout, and motivation to give his play to Lee Daniels. Because of Daniels, he got a writing job without any former TV work or produced work (in any medium, if I'm not mistaken) or assistant jobs... this is very difficult and rare to do. Who knows, maybe any of the 5 black writers who had their broadway debuts when we came back from Covid would have been the youngest had they gotten a powerful agent and connections with an extremely influential producer right out of school. I can't say, and I am not going to look up the careers of all of those black playwrights let alone the non-black ones who were 28-35 by the time their work was produced on Broadway. None of these facts take away from Cooper's immense and wide talent, or the achievement of this play getting to Broadway, when he's 27 or any age really - and not only because he's black and previous to this play not a major playwright of note -- but also because of the kind of play it is (regardless of the subject and premise and cast of characters, it is a sketch play, which is very rare to be produced on Broadway and very rare to succeed). -- On the flip side, from my post you replied to... would anyone Sondheim's age (27, or 26 or 25 when he got involved with WSS) EVER have been in his position to be considered or produced had he not had Oscar Hammerstein as his mentor? Almost definitely not. And of course having a solo writing piece produced rather than being part of a writing team with a big established writer, is a different thing and bigger deal. I just wanted to define what was meant. Cooper's play being produced when he is the young age of 27 is amazing and notable, but let's just celebrate what is true, there's plenty to celebrate and plenty to note as a notable achievement! (even without regard for whether I think the thing being celebrated is entirely relevant, and without even bothering to put it in any context at all). And we can celebrate the talent and achievement and milestone AND take some issue about claiming something that isn't true. And should be able to do it with non-white people without implied accusations of racism being put out there. Or, maybe, yeah, sure... anyone who realizes he isn't the youngest or only 27 year old (if 27 were even the youngest aged writer to open on bway) and says it is obviously racist and hates his success and wants to take him down! |
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