Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: The Apartment vs Promises, Promises (longish). | |
| Posted by: larry13 11:03 am EST 12/26/22 | |
| In reply to: The Apartment vs Promises, Promises (longish). - Delvino 10:45 am EST 12/26/22 | |
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| Very interesting, thank you. "Simon just wasn't that into her." Isn't this true of Simon in general(not always)with female characters? And maybe he just wasn't as good a writer as Wilder & Diamond? And always looking for the quick and easy laugh, sitcom style. Jokes rather than characters. |
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| Hal David's lyrics reflect the show's (gendered) view. | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 12:07 pm EST 12/26/22 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 12:01 pm EST 12/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Apartment vs Promises, Promises (longish). - larry13 11:03 am EST 12/26/22 | |
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| Chuck's songs are about his career trajectory and workplace bargains ("Half as Big as Life," "Our Little Secret," the title tune), the frustrations of his moral compromises ("Upstairs") and the existential reality of Christmas Eve alone ("A Fact Can Be a Beautiful Thing.") "She Likes Basketball," a showstopper, is his romantic yearning. Sheldrake, the womanizer, was given "Wanting Things," a mildly reflective examination of privilege -- "things" includes women in the workplace -- that stops short of revelation. Not a great number, today it does feel the closest to deepening the Apartment's character. He almost sees his predation for what it is. Fran's songs, two duets with Chuck, are all niche variations of romantic regret: "Knowing When to Leave," about falling for a louse and unable to exit; "Whoever You Are, I Love You," a pre-suicide realization that life isn't worth living without the (wrong) man. Her I Want duet "You'll Think of Someone" is about needing a hobby that will attract a partner ("I could take up tennis/to relax me a game of doubles wouldn't tax me/ but I just don't know who my partner should be.") "I'll Never Fall in Love Again," the show's standalone hit, is the closest to the MacLaine character's rue. Yet again, another song about romantic mistakes. Only a few years after the heroine of How to Succeed sang "Happy to Keep His Supper Warm" a single urban woman had no career or educations plans beyond snagging a better guy. Interestingly, Promises opened opposite Hair's ascendance, in which O'Hara had played the impassioned Sheila at the Public. Promises arrived on the cusp of a new era, the summer of 1969 a transition for the nation. It was set in the present (unlike the revival) and aimed to accurately reflect urban life: the great dancer and director, Baayork Lee, aside, straight white people in a very narrow work environment. The Apartment, filmed 8 years earlier, now seems far more brutal in its critique of the hypocrisy in corporate culture. |
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| re: Hal David's lyrics reflect the show's (gendered) view. | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:47 pm EST 12/26/22 | |
| In reply to: Hal David's lyrics reflect the show's (gendered) view. - Delvino 12:01 pm EST 12/26/22 | |
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| "I'll Never Fall in Love Again," the show's standalone hit, is the closest to the MacLaine character's rue. And it becomes a pointedly awkward, bittersweet song for Chuck, who gets to use the song to comment on this whole complicated situation with Fran (who still has no idea that he's in love with her). |
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| re: The Apartment vs Promises, Promises (longish). | |
| Posted by: claploudly 11:55 am EST 12/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Apartment vs Promises, Promises (longish). - larry13 11:03 am EST 12/26/22 | |
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| But I think you are overlooking Lost in Yonkers for which Mercedes Ruhl won a Tony for her performance. Jane Kaczmarek is a Yale MFA graduate in the same graudating class with Kate Burton, Frances McDormand, and Angela Bassett I believe. Many people think of her as a more comedic actress because of her success in tv's Malcolm in the Middle. But when she replaced Ms Ruhl, the NY Times wrote a half page article with large photo of Ms. Kaczmarek about how often the replacements give a better performance that the original actor and make the play worth seeing again. Kaczmarek has gone on to play many other lead dramatic roles in such heavy-hitters as Long Day's Journey into Night, etc. | |
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| re: The Apartment vs Promises, Promises (longish). | |
| Posted by: larry13 12:16 pm EST 12/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Apartment vs Promises, Promises (longish). - claploudly 11:55 am EST 12/26/22 | |
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| I'm definitely NOT overlooking LOST which I thought(yes, minority opinion)vastly overrated, possibly because Simon WAS writing about women and not exactly as he had written earlier. I didn't believe ANYthing in the play; only Irene Worth created a real human being. I don't blame Ruehl or any of the other actors.(Worth was a genius.) | |
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| re: The Apartment vs Promises, Promises (longish). | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 12:16 pm EST 12/26/22 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 12:05 pm EST 12/26/22 | |
| In reply to: re: The Apartment vs Promises, Promises (longish). - claploudly 11:55 am EST 12/26/22 | |
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| And a failure has two of his most complex characters: The Gingerbread Lady. In adapting, I think Simon and Hal David were blind to how a male privilege-dominated story denied Fran much agency beyond tragic romantic yearning. Yes, the songs do the heavy lifting in a musical, but as per my post above, Fran wanted nothing but a better (unmarried) man. A boomer perspective, since boomers are sometimes blamed for being clueless and feckless: In 1968, when I was 17 and my ambitious female classmates were applying to top schools, somewhat startling. Am I overthinking this, in the thread? Maybe. But I always think musical comedies set in the present (see Company, etc.) are compelling windows into were we are as a society, and gender is ever an interesting prism. |
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