Threaded Order Chronological Order
| not bad, CINDERELLA | |
| Posted by: standingO 11:15 pm EDT 04/04/23 | |
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| Thanks to those who encouraged me to go. It’s not high art but I had a decent time. The main draw was the music and it has playing on a loop in my head since leaving the theater. Hope the Tonys recognize it with a nomination for Original Score. Maybe also a nod for Carolee Carmello who is having fun camping it up. Has she ever played Vera Charles? Cameron Loyal makes a micro role memorable. The crowd loved his scene and its resolution. Linedy Genao and Jordan Dobson were sweet together and each have some individual moments to shine. I won’t dwell on negatives as the reviews were pretty harsh. But the audience seemed to have a good time and I don’t regret seeing it. The audience seemed to be a lot of spring breakers and high school groups. |
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| re: not bad, CINDERELLA | |
| Posted by: theaterislife 02:59 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: not bad, CINDERELLA - standingO 11:15 pm EDT 04/04/23 | |
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| I agree with everything in your post! It's a fun show. Far from perfect masterpiece, but I had a good time. Since the score was a hot topic below, my two cents is I thought the music was great. Bad Cinderella has some good tunes, big ballads, and catchy melodies. Especially if you enjoy ALW, I felt there's some good stuff in there. I hope it gets nominated for Best Score. It's all subjective, but I haven't heard a score from any new musical this season that in my view is better than Bad Cinderella. It's kind of ironic about the "forgettable" criticisms below because usually the flack that ALW gets is how unforgettable his melodies are and that you leave the theater with them stuck in your head like bubble gum, especially after the signature melodies are repeated throughout the show. So not sure which way people want it. In some ways, I would think every musical score kind of "forgettable" the first time you hear it, and the more you listen to it, the more you start to remember and recognize the writing. Someone mentioned below the critical reception to back up their claims. In my reading of the reviews, I think ALW's score got off the easiest, with a number of critics evening saying it was good. A few I remembered: - Talkin Broadway: "This is true despite the fact that Lloyd Webber has given both Linedy Genao and Jordan Dobson some lovely ballads and soaring power numbers to perform, and the score overall boasts a wide range of styles that will probably sound much better on a cast recording, unencumbered by the convoluted plot." - NY Post: "Then there are Lloyd Webber’s lushly orchestrated and tuneful ballads, which — all chandeliers aside — are why we come to any show by him. The wonderful song “Only You, Lonely You,” sung not by Cinderella but by Prince Sebastian (Jordan Dobson), is the single best moment of the musical, which is unfortunate because it happens during the first 25 minutes. Cinderella’s “I Know I Have A Heart (Because You Broke It)” and “Far Too Late” are pretty — the too-wordy lyrics are by David Zippel — but there’s no powerful narrative build to help them soar like they should." - Bloomberg: "At least Lloyd Webber’s music is often catchy and sure-footed, even as it repeats itself in his usual style, and the 17-piece orchestra adds lushness. The title song features an earworm affectionately lifted from In My Own Little Corner in Rodgers and Hammerstein’s own splendid Cinderella. It’s lodged in my brain like a hatchet." - AMNY: "much of “Cinderella” is written with an eye for catchy pop anthems, including the title song" - NY Daily News: "Lloyd Webber has penned a self-defining title number, which is catchy and belted out by Genao with genuine chops. There are a couple of ballads that his fans (which will always include me) should enjoy and a few moments of that signature Lloyd Webber wall of sound (eat your heart out, Phil Spector), which is a positive trigger for me of so much of my early affection for musicals. But, along with JoAnn M. Hunter’s choreography, in a few places, that’s about all this pretty terrible show has on its list of positives." - Variety: "“Bad Cinderella” at least offers a viable framework for a few of Webber’s signature power ballads, designed to showcase blunt sentiment and athletic vocals, which Genao and Dobson both deliver with rousing and admirable confidence." Anyway, I hope the score is recognized. I enjoyed Kimberly Akimbo a lot but didn't think the music was it's strongest selling point, and not sure anything else will really emerge. I'm not sure how Bad Cinderella will make it through the summer, but I think the reception has been a little extra vicious because it's ALW. Especially after the "costly mistake" misquote. |
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| re: not bad, CINDERELLA | |
| Posted by: GavinLogan1 09:00 am EDT 04/08/23 | |
| In reply to: re: not bad, CINDERELLA - theaterislife 02:59 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| 100% agreed. I’ve always hated the statement about it being an unmemorable score… Whenever that is used, I roll my eyes. No score is memorable after one listen, even if a couple of tunes might stick in your head… It’s after repeated listens that you become familiar with a piece. Stephen Sondheim always hated when people would talk about how his melodies were unhummable. Every melody is unhummable if you’ve heard it once—it’s the repeated familiarity with a show that allows you to start understanding the nuances in intricacies of all the different songs, as well as how the melodies of certain songs are woven into others to make a tapestry of a score… You’re not getting that on one listen, and especially not getting that if you go to the theatre deciding already that you’re going to hate the show because of who wrote it. |
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| re: not bad, CINDERELLA | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:53 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: not bad, CINDERELLA - theaterislife 02:59 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| I would think every musical score kind of "forgettable" the first time you hear it, and the more you listen to it, the more you start to remember and recognize the writing. Thank you. That's exactly it. |
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| re: not bad, CINDERELLA | |
| Posted by: J.Collins 02:09 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: not bad, CINDERELLA - standingO 11:15 pm EDT 04/04/23 | |
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| Thanks for your post, but get ready for the abuse. It seems a cardinal sin around here to suggest even the slightest approval of anything Lloyd Webber is associated with. It's great that you are able to maintain an open mind, but just get ready to be told you are WRONG | |
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| How childish | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 06:24 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 06:23 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: not bad, CINDERELLA - J.Collins 02:09 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| People have genuine critiques of the show—and they seem to be pretty much in keeping with what the critics had to say. And not for nothing, but just because you don’t grasp what a “forgettable score” means (hint: it means it’s not particularly compelling or original, not that the listener has a poor memory) doesn’t make the critique is “abusive.” |
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| re: How childish | |
| Posted by: J.Collins 08:33 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: How childish - MockingbirdGirl 06:23 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| You're entitled to your own opinion and critique, but you're not entitled to change the meaning of words to suit your agenda. Forgettable has a specific meaning, 'original' has a meaning - and they are not the same (I refer you to any dictionary if you care to check). If the poster thought the score was unoriginal, they could have said that. They didn't. A score might be extremely derivative yet extremely memorable. The two are not synonymous. | |
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| re: How childish | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:39 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: How childish - J.Collins 08:33 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| Is there a reason you elide MBG's word "compelling" which seems to cover all that you say here, focused only on "original." It is well to remember that one's opinion of a particular score is always a subjective opinion. Moreover, what one remembers of it or not is uniquely personal, probably biologically. Finally, I do not think one can equate "dismissive" with "abusive." It is also well to remember that this is a discussion board, where relevant topics can be discussed and debated. Disagreeing with someone in that context is not abusive. |
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| re: How childish | |
| Posted by: J.Collins 01:14 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: How childish - ryhog 11:39 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| That is not an elision - I chose to use just one of the terms offered as an example, but the same applies for both. Forgettable has a specific meaning, as does uncompelling. They are not the same. If the poster didn't find the score compelling, they could have said that. They didn't. I am responding to what the poster did write, not what others may want to read on to what the poster wrote. | |
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| re: How childish | |
| Posted by: ryhog 03:24 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: How childish - J.Collins 01:14 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| I don't know how much future this definition stuff has but to me (and I think most) "compelling" means "unable to forget." The first four notes of Beethoven's 5th are unforgettable because they are compelling. (My preferred word is "resonant" but that's another matter. That seems to be a sidebar in any case. Your original point was "abuse." I do not think it is fair to label any of the words being used "abusive," here or elsewhere. ALW has written some memorable tunes over the years and maybe even one in this show. But a score? I don't think even avid fans would say this one is all that. |
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| re: How childish | |
| Posted by: Sam890 08:00 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: How childish - MockingbirdGirl 06:23 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| With your attempt at insult and condescending tone, you've just proved J. Collins' point. Also, J. Collins' never suggested that calling a score forgettable is 'abusuve'. You have made an error here, and really should apologize |
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| re: How childish | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:04 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: How childish - Sam890 08:00 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| “ If you've forgotten the majority of the score, isn't that a reflection on your memory for melodies?” But sure, my post is insulting. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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| re: How childish | |
| Posted by: Sam890 08:16 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: How childish - MockingbirdGirl 08:04 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| You chose to call someone childish - that's an insult. J. Collins posed a legitimate question. People differ greatly in their ability to recall melodies. Some have posted here that the score for Bad Cinderella has catchy melodies that stick in the ear, some have said they found it unmemorable. It seems perfectly reasonable to suggest that memorability might be in the 'ear of the beholder' and a function of the listeners capacity to remember. But sure, rather than engage in a meaningful way, just lable someone childish who might have a different opinion to you. |
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| re: How childish | |
| Last Edit: Jeff73 09:32 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| Posted by: Jeff73 09:31 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: How childish - Sam890 08:16 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| My god, people on this board can be pedantic... they really like to argue about the littlest things, don't they? | |
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| re: How childish | |
| Posted by: PaulGrin 12:46 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: How childish - Jeff73 09:31 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| It's the little things you do together that make perfect relationships. | |
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| Not bad? DULL Cinderella | |
| Last Edit: Genealley 01:05 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| Posted by: Genealley 01:04 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: not bad, CINDERELLA - standingO 11:15 pm EDT 04/04/23 | |
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| What a drag! In fact, drag probably would have helped. Stupid, vague, never-ending, boring choreography, songs that repeat and repeat and repeat (how many choruses of each song do we really need, Andrew?), a not-Bad Cinderella (more like a "where is Cinderella?"), a sinister fairy godmother, a pointless purpose to resurrecting this story again. Just SOOOO strange. | |
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| Bad grosses | |
| Last Edit: dramedy 12:08 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| Posted by: dramedy 12:04 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: not bad, CINDERELLA - standingO 11:15 pm EDT 04/04/23 | |
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| $632k last week of post opening performances. I also think the reviews were too harsh but the show isn’t catching on. It seems like shucked is getting better reviews which is perplexing to me. | |
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| Shucked is fun | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:11 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: Bad grosses - dramedy 12:04 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| Lowbrow Brilliant to use the Approval Matrix definition. It's a delightful show with an appealing cast who get to be funny, sing some killer songs, and build a small community inside the walls of the Nederlander. To my great surprise, it's probably the thing I liked the most on my last trip to New York. It won't be everyone's cup of tea - it certainly doesn't appeal to some of the pompous NYC critics, and you have to meet it on its own, kind of dumb terms - but for many of us, it's a really enjoyable couple of hours in the theater. |
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| re: Shucked is fun | |
| Posted by: duckylittledictum 02:53 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: Shucked is fun - Singapore/Fling 12:11 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| My thoughts exactly. | |
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| re: Shucked is fun | |
| Posted by: downtownlw 04:19 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Shucked is fun - duckylittledictum 02:53 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| I found it to be a master class in fun! | |
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| re: Bad grosses | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 01:39 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: Bad grosses - dramedy 12:04 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| The problem with Bad Cinderella is that most of the score is totally forgettable except Only You, Lonely You. | |
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| re: Bad grosses | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:07 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Bad grosses - lowwriter 01:39 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| You didn't find the title song, with its cribbing - I mean "homage" - of Rodgers and Hammerstein to be an infectious earworm? | |
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| re: Bad grosses | |
| Posted by: J.Collins 02:13 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Bad grosses - lowwriter 01:39 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| I've never understood why this is used as a criticism. If you've forgotten the majority of the score, isn't that a reflection on your memory for melodies? I don't see why it's the fault of a composer that you can't remember their music | |
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| re: Bad grosses | |
| Last Edit: lowwriter 01:08 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 01:06 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Bad grosses - J.Collins 02:13 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| What I meant to say is that most of the score is so banal and boring that I had no reason to listen to the songs ever again except the one song I mentioned. | |
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| re: Bad grosses | |
| Last Edit: EvFoDr 02:53 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 02:51 pm EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Bad grosses - J.Collins 02:13 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| I'll go a step further and say that regardless of the REASON why a person may not remember the melodies--be that a function of the melodies themselves or a person's memory for melodies--I don't get why the assessment of memorable or not is so often used as a measure of success or listener enjoyment, or quality. I tend to think that melodies that are memorable after one viewing of a show are either familiar to begin with (derivative?), very simple, or repeated so many times that it's inevitable they would be remembered. None of these makes a melody good, necessarily. I didn't walk out of Caroline or Change remembering the melodies, but thought it was exceptional and couldn't wait to see it again and get the recroding for a deeper dive. On the other hand I certainly walked out of La Cage humming The Best of Times. It's a long repetitive song that is also then reprised. And all towards the end of the show. And that's great too. Love them both. There is room for all. But remembering the songs doesn't make them good, and not remembering them doesn't make them bad. Maybe what people really mean is they didn't LIKE the songs. Whichs is totally valid. |
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| re: Bad grosses | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 10:28 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Bad grosses - J.Collins 02:13 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| It’s easier to remember the title song of “Hello Dolly” after one listening than it is to remember any song by Michael John LaChiusa. It’s simple and repetitive. | |
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| re: Bad grosses | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 05:02 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Bad grosses - KingSpeed 10:28 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| That's true, but I have found LaChiusa sometimes does have songs that are sort of catchy, songs that stick in your head and that you can at least partly sing when the show is over. | |
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| THE WILD PARTY's Score | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 06:58 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 06:57 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Bad grosses - AlanScott 05:02 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| I saw The Wild Party a single time at the Virginia months before the cast album was released and couldn't get "People Like Us" out of my head (among other songs from that incredible score). | |
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| re: Bad grosses | |
| Posted by: Revned 02:28 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Bad grosses - J.Collins 02:13 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| I agree. If immediate memorability/hummability of the songs were the main criterion for quality, we would be obligated to acknowledge MAMMA MIA! as the greatest of all musicals. | |
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| re: Bad grosses | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 10:25 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Bad grosses - Revned 02:28 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| But dramedy didn’t say Bad Cinderella was the greatest of all musicals. Just said “decent.” | |
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| re: "It seems like shucked is getting better reviews which is perplexing to me" | |
| Posted by: Dale 12:29 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: Bad grosses - dramedy 12:04 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| How perplexing is a funny evening of theater? | |
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| I didn’t find it very funny and score is weak | |
| Posted by: dramedy 12:46 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
| In reply to: re: "It seems like shucked is getting better reviews which is perplexing to me" - Dale 12:29 am EDT 04/05/23 | |
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| I found producers and Mormon to be funny and intelligent humor. Shucked is pretty lowbrow. A few good jokes here and there doesn’t make up with the relentless bombardment of jokes hoping some will stick. | |
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