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| Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Last Edit: lowwriter 10:34 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 10:22 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| I wrote a lengthy reaction to Camelot but someone my log in must have timed out so I’ll be briefer. Jordan Donica was out of Camelot yesterday and his absence leaves a big hole in the show. His understudy was good but he just doesn’t have Donica’s voice. I believe Donica is out until April 11 because critics have been rescheduled from attending. Also the sound was not right at yesterday’s matinee and both Philippa Soo and the actor playing Lancelot could be barely heard while singing. Sorkin’s new book has added humor which is welcome. But taking out the magical elements doesn’t work. The worst scene in the show is a long one involving Morgsn Le Fey who could be old enough to be his grandmother and makes you wonder why Arthur keeps writing her, she has no appeal. Also the passion of the triangle is totally lacking. You don’t really know Gueniviere loves Arthur until she explains it at the end and she also tells Lancelot after they have slept together she doesn’t love him. All this is bad writing. I thought Andrew Burnap was outstanding, he gives a layered and rich performance. Philippa Soo is often lovely and funny but she comes across as rather cold and I haven’t felt that way about her in another shows. So it must be Sher misdirecting her. I also found the three actors playing Arthur’s main knights lacked any personality or appeal. There was no reason to care about them or why Gueniviere would cater to them. I also didn’t like the shortening of How to Handle a Woman and What Do the Simple Folk Do? which Sorkin originally wanted to cut completely. That goes to show you how he was the wrong person to rewrite Camelot. It’s a shame that those involved with this production think Sorkin can do no wrong. I want to add that I still enjoyed parts of this production very much and plan to go back to see Donica. |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 04:28 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - lowwriter 10:22 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| Friends who were there last night also said that Soo was barely audible when singing. | |
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| CAMELOT 4/6 | |
| Posted by: manchurch03104 04:01 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - AlanScott 04:28 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| I was there on Thursday night. Totally misguided production. Soo, Burnap miscast; Soo can't be heard 2nd understudy for Lance was on; good for him for getting through it but his singing voice is disappointing and he had little sex appeal Sorkin's updates are too contemporary, cynical, jargony and feminist There is a vocal moment from an ensemble member in act 2 that is beyond ridiculous Gorgeous opening (all downhill from there) |
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| re: CAMELOT 4/6 | |
| Posted by: sonata10 05:56 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: CAMELOT 4/6 - manchurch03104 04:01 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
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| I agree. Underwhelming is the nicest word for this production. | |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: ilw 05:28 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - AlanScott 04:28 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| Curiously, I had no trouble hearing Soo singing last night from Row G, and the sound was generally well-balanced between orchestra and singers. Matias De La Flor is the name of the understudy who was on for Jordan Donica, and I thought he did a fine job. I was mostly bored by the show, despite some lovely music and a mostly excellent cast. I am not very familiar with Camelot, so I don't know how much to blame on the new book, but I didn't get invested in the plot or any of the characters. I particularly disliked the awkward speeches about democracy and the lame jokes. |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 12:41 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - ilw 05:28 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| I thought Matias De La Flor was a good Lancelot but his singing was not as powerful as I would have liked. It’s not in the same league as Donica’s voice. I am returning to see Camelot because I have a dual Lincoln Center membership. Perhaps I will try sitting in Row G. I sat in the first row and some of the miking was faint. |
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| re: "Perhaps I will try sitting in Row G" | |
| Posted by: Dale 09:37 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - lowwriter 12:41 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
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| I was in G501 Thursday night! Great sight lines of a handsome production! I had no issue with the sound or that the knights all looked alike ( bald bearded belters ). Having read T.H. White I was disappointed the magic was erased: "Dragon" left in the lyrics of "I Wonder What The King Is Doing Tonight" with dialogue hinting WHY it was left in but cut from "C'est Moi". Morgan Le Fey is now a scientist and not a sorceress ( I still recall she once lived in a house made of food ). Even with the tweaking I had a great 2.55 hours of entertainment! The audience rooted for u/s Matias De La Flor who had a fine voice and could handle a blade! | |
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| March 22 evening performance | |
| Last Edit: seeseveryshow 03:01 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| Posted by: seeseveryshow 02:52 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - lowwriter 10:22 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| Christian Mark Gibbs filled in for Jordan Danica on March 22, and he was brilliant. Couldn’t imagine the role played any better. No problem with sound from second row center section 300 seats. Loved the show, and didn’t mind the Sorkin updates. I don’t think most audiences will know or care about a few generally irrelevant anachronisms. I had one minor note that I passed on to a production associate: the investiture scene thrones, which were curiously positioned downfront with their backs to the audience, blocked our view of the investiture, and the start of Arthur’s speech that followed. I thought the scene should have been presented with the thrones more upstage and facing the audience. Maybe that’s now been fixed. Overall, it’s a terrific night in the theater. A handsome production, beautifully staged and performed, with an update that provided some character development, and gave dimension and resonance to the story. Would I have preferred a faithful reproduction of the original Burton/Andrews/Goulet production? Yes! However, it is noted that the memorable original orchestrations have not been touched. Highly recommended. |
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| re: March 22 evening performance | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 08:07 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: March 22 evening performance - seeseveryshow 02:52 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| I’m in LA, and not going to see this unless it tours, but having anyone in an Arthurian piece—be it legendary, as in various literary sources that comprise the Matter of Britain, or be it more gritty and historical, with Arthur as the late 5th century Romano-British warlord—that mentions Voltaire is going to have me muttering darkly in my seat. Voltaire? The eighteenth century dude, the driving force of the Enlightenment? WTF is Voltaire doing in bloody Camelot? Laura in LA |
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| re: March 22 evening performance | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 08:22 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: March 22 evening performance - showtunetrivia 08:07 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
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| Friends who were there two days ago and who didn't like it said that they didn't hear any mentions of Voltaire. So perhaps they have wisely dropped those. | |
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| re: March 22 evening performance | |
| Last Edit: melvotaw 06:03 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| Posted by: melvotaw 05:50 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: March 22 evening performance - seeseveryshow 02:52 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| When I saw it this past Wednesday matinee with Mattias, it was SUCH a disappointment. I don't mind the contemporary lines so much, but if first, there's no love between Guinevere and Arthur, and then no heat/eroticism between Guinevere and Lancelot, what are we even there for? And then, she says she doesn't really love Lancelot but "oops, I loved you, Arthur, all this time and acted like I didn't care about you at all; sorry for screwing a guy I didn't even love and causing a war in the process"? Honestly, that's just f***ed up. Take out the magical elements if you must, but leave at least enough of the romance that we give a crap about the characters. | |
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| re: March 22 evening performance | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 01:08 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: March 22 evening performance - seeseveryshow 02:52 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| They are still positioning the throne seats with the backs to the audience. In The King and I, a piece of scenery blocked part of the Shall We Dance number from view so scenery obstacles are nothing new in Sher directed shows. There are also high bars on the left and right ends of the stage near the audience seats so if you sit in the front in the far sections of the orchestra your view of the stage may be obstructed. | |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:39 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - lowwriter 10:22 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| “Simple Folk” wasn’t cut down when I saw it a month ago. That must be new. So didn’t blast her singing when I saw it but I thought it was lovely. | |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 12:50 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - KingSpeed 12:39 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| Simple Folk was rushed. Soo barely whistled and Burnap didn’t join her so that verse was cut short. Then when they sang the Arise, My Love verse, Soo stopped singing before completing the whole verse. I thought they would at least have a longer dance together in the last verse to show they are still in love but even that was interrupted. Just a frustrating treatment of the song. | |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 04:02 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - lowwriter 12:50 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
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| Wasn’t rushed when I saw it. | |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: Circlevet 12:37 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - lowwriter 10:22 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| Saw this snooze fest last night and left at intermission----and it is very rare for me do this. | |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: Huss417 11:40 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - lowwriter 10:22 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| By The headline I thought you meant they were out of the show permanently. | |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: waterfall 11:30 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - lowwriter 10:22 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| I feel your pain re: losing posts here because of getting timed out while composing. I've taken to copying and saving every so often. Thanks for taking the time to rewrite. I agree with you regarding Sorkin, and I'm a huge fan of his. "Jordan Donica was out of Camelot yesterday and his absence leaves a big hole in the show. His understudy was good but he just doesn’t have Donica’s voice. For the record, that was Donica's 2nd understudy. His name escapes me at the moment. |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 11:20 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - waterfall 11:30 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| I wonder how unusual it is that a show still in previews has had time to rehearse two understudies. Maybe the issues that people in this thread had with the performance is that this actor was thrown on with not much rehearsal and was just trying to get through the performance. If that's that case, that's not really fair to a paying audience, but, in an atmosphere of "the show must go on," that's what is going to happen. We hear the legendary stories of actors having to go on with no rehearsal and being brilliant and a star is born and all that, but I imagine that there are many more stories that we never hear about actors having to go on with no rehearsal and being just adequate enough to not have to cancel the performance. And maybe sometimes the performance should be cancelled. |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:26 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - JereNYC 11:20 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
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| The friends I know who saw him saw his third performance. They just felt he was miscast. He knew the songs but did not have the right kind of voice and is not physically imposing. He was perfectly professional. But these friends liked almost nothing about the show, most of all disliking the rewrites. They did like Burnap. And they realized it must be at least somewhat better with an actor who is right for Lancelot. They went into detail about the rewrites, and I gotta say it sounds like something I won't mind missing. |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: melvotaw 05:53 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - JereNYC 11:20 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
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| No, it couldn't just be the understudy playing Lance. The issues have to do with the rewrites and the direction of Soo to be cold and act like she doesn't care about anybody. | |
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| re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes | |
| Posted by: toros 11:21 am EDT 04/09/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - melvotaw 05:53 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
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| I don't find Soo cold at all, although clearly, the charming, joyous ingenue thing is not her default. I found her performance mysterious and complex, and I appreciate the reserve. She's a fascinating actress, and I always find myself wondering what her characters are thinking. There is depth and an "unexpected" quality to her work here, and in everything else I've seen her in. | |
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| Response. | |
| Last Edit: dramedy 10:59 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
| Posted by: dramedy 10:56 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: Jordan Donica out of Camelot and Sorkin’s changes - lowwriter 10:22 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| This is the first musical in YEARS that I didn’t have to wear earplugs. For me, the sound is perfect because it isn’t overamplified and more like little amplification. Now I was third row 200 section and I did wonder if the mezz could hear anything. But it’s all about me and the sound was perfect. My friends wanted to leave at intermission which they didn’t tell me until after. I was expecting a slow evening so I was ok with the pace. The songs are sung nicely and I thought it was well cast although Soo is no Andrews in voice and warmth. But she’s fine in the part. The sorkin rewrite is pretty glaring with throwing out the timeline. Reference to voltaire, modern science and marriage is a “business partnership” are jarring. I almost expected iPhones to show up in the second act. I know it is fantasy, but it is based in the Middle Ages. The one change I like is sword fight over jousting at county fair. It’s more practical than the usual song watching the crowd watching the jousting off stage. And usually sword fights look so fake, but kiddos to choreographer that staged it—well done. Morgan le fe being older is ok. Mordred is late teens so she would be mid 30s anyway. It’s clear that Arthur was very young when he was having sex with her and then assisted his older brother to tournament to pull the sword. So Arthur being 10 years younger is ok. |
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| re: Response. | |
| Posted by: melvotaw 05:55 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: Response. - dramedy 10:56 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| I don't love loud shows, but when we saw it Wednesday, I had to strain to hear them at all. There were a few lines sung by Lance that I couldn't even hear well enough to understand the lyrics. AND I WAS IN THE FRONT ROW. | |
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| re: Response. | |
| Posted by: lonlad 01:53 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: Response. - dramedy 10:56 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| > but kiddos to That's wonderful!!!! :-) |
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| re: Response. | |
| Last Edit: lowwriter 11:14 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 11:09 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: Response. - dramedy 10:56 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| You could barely hear Soo or the actor singing Lancelot. I was sitting in the first row and there is nothing wrong with my hearing. I did like the sword fighting. But to have Arthur hit in the head twice by Lancelot was a bit much. I found the actress playing Morgan was totally charmless. I hated her character and the way it was written. |
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| re: Response. | |
| Last Edit: lordofspeech 09:59 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 09:44 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Response. - lowwriter 11:09 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| SPOILERS ABOUT THE ORIGINAL STORYLINE CREATED BY LERNER: The joust parallels the Ascot Gavotte scene in MY FAIR LADY, for one thing. For another, it turns the plot on its head: Guenevere has merrily teased the 3 knights into challenging Lance. Her purpose is to humble him. Fine, and we expect the joust to be exciting. By staging it as an observed and reported narrative, Lerner and Hart were able to attenuate the suspense leading to the killing of the 3rd knight. (I think it was Lionel). So, when his corpse is carried mournfully onstage, Gwen sees the consequences of her vain gesture. A kind of murder. So, then, when Lance kneels and brings the knght back to life (out of his, Lance’s purity), she must be undone. And her heart is undone. So too is Arthur undone, for seeing Lance’s embodiment of grace, and for seeing Guenever shattered. The way it’s been changed by Sorkin takes away all the gravity of it, takes the possibility of miracle away, deprives us of recognizing how and for what Guenevere has become enthralled. Lance is not just a hunk. He’s all that she and Arthir envisioned for their RoundTable. Sorkin grounds it in the prosaic. Miracles and purity were part of the Arthur stories. Holy Grail, anyone? And then, yes, of course we should see Arthur’s face and Jen’s face when Lance is knighted. What they feel and know about what has irreversibly happened to their heretofore inviolate devotion should be all we need to watch. Turns the thrones around, for heaven’s sake! I’m sorry to grouse so much, but this is all so disrespectful. Of the author(s), i.e., Lerner, Hart, Loewe, et al. (The staging of the other major narrative ellipse, the choral song GUENEVERE, with what seem to be rewrites, does work.) |
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| re: Response. | |
| Posted by: melvotaw 05:59 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Response. - lordofspeech 09:44 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| Thank you! I could not agree with you more. That change was the worst of all of them (besides not showing that Arthur and Guenevere DO fall in love early on). The event that causes Guenevere to see Lance in a new light and fall in love with him is IMPERATIVE to the story. Without it, the gravity of it all is lost. This is one of my favorite musicals of all time, and Sorkin just ruined the whole thing. I have just ordered a secondhand copy of the original Broadway script to reread it (I did the show many years ago). It was hard to get hold of a copy, but I'm looking forward to reminding myself of the differences since the film diverts considerably from the original script. |
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| re: Response. | |
| Posted by: dramedy 11:41 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Response. - lowwriter 11:09 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| Soo did the least projection of the three my night but Donica was performing sat night with strong voice. Maybe in front row the orch overpowers a bit more than where I sat and the actors might be projecting upwards toward the mezz than down below. | |
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| re: Response. | |
| Posted by: gothamplaygoer 08:17 pm EDT 04/08/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Response. - dramedy 11:41 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| The first few rows should definitely be avoided because the stage is very high. From these seats you are getting too much sound from the orchestra, which is under the stage, and too little sound from the singers. | |
| Link | Camelot |
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| re: Response. | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 03:14 pm EDT 04/09/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Response. - gothamplaygoer 08:17 pm EDT 04/08/23 | |
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| I have sat in the first row for all the past musicals at the Beaumont and have never had sound issues with a full orchestra before. I know someone who saw Camelo much further back and also found the sound lacking. | |
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| re: Response. | |
| Posted by: melvotaw 06:00 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Response. - dramedy 11:41 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| No. Most of the singers could be heard in the front row. For some reason, they had under-miked the leads, especially Phillipa and Mattias. | |
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| re: Response. | |
| Posted by: peter3053 10:00 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Response. - dramedy 11:41 am EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| From all this, it sounds as if they haven't a clue about what made "Camelot" hold the place it does in so many people's hearts. | |
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| re: Response. | |
| Posted by: melvotaw 06:02 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: Response. - peter3053 10:00 pm EDT 04/06/23 | |
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| Not the slightest clue. They should have spoken to a woman. In my mind, if I don't fall in love with both Arthur and Lance, something is wrong. I did fall in love with Arthur in this version, but only because I think Andrew was the only one who was allowed to bring vulnerability and warmth to his role. | |
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