Threaded Order Chronological Order
| A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Last Edit: mikem 10:45 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
| Posted by: mikem 10:42 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| I saw Phantom for a last time after I was able to get a single seat at a reasonable price at the last minute. I have only seen the show twice before, once many years ago on Broadway, and once in the Las Vegas version. I frankly have not thought about the show much in at least a decade, so I don't know if my concerns are related to the current cast or to the show in general. Or to how the world is in 2023 compared to the late 1980s when the show was written. The chandelier comes down faster than I remember it -- I don't know if my memory is off or if it got permission to be faster at some point. Its descent seemed unnaturally slow last time. I had major problems with the central love triangle. Ben Crawford, the current Phantom, plays him like he is completely deranged from his first appearance. He is not seductive or charming; he is a crazed stalker killer. It is no surprise that Christine is not going to reciprocate his romantic feelings and choose him. I am guessing Crawford is pushing the crazy more than some other Phantoms would, but I think the fundamentals for that interpretation are there - the bridal mannequin is very early, and that is completely off. I also wonder how much my current thoughts are from how the action comes across in 2023: the Phantom is that relentlessly pushy guy who isn’t listening to the woman saying she is not interested and won’t take no for an answer; she sees some good qualities in him and tries not to be a jerk about it but he just isn’t listening. He's the original Incel. So the story seems to be about a lunatic stalker who’s going around killing people more than some romantic dilemma for Christine. But Raoul is no prize through the 2023 lens, either, at least as played by Paul Adam Schaefer, who played the part at my performance. Again, I think he may be going more in one direction than other Raouls but the backbone is there. Raoul is a privileged prig who talks over Christine and is incredibly dismissive of her fears during the rooftop scene and at other points. He doesn't seem to think of her as an equal. I guess Christine is supposed to fall in love with him because he's handsome and rich because he's not given a lot of positive personal qualities (or much of a personality at all) in the book. Carlotta is played by Raquel Suarez Groen on a very human level rather than an outsize diva. Rather than being a comic nemesis, her concerns seem completely reasonable in 2023: she is the box office draw for a struggling opera company, and everyone agrees that she is great at what she does. But she is being forced out because an inexperienced newcomer has a powerful backer (or two powerful backers), and her male employers aren’t listening to a word she says about the dangers to her personally. Rather than trying to protect her, they are dismissive and only placate her so they can get the money flowing back in. When she says, “Until these things stop happening, this thing (pointing to herself) is not happening” and walks out, it’s supposed to come across as a diva moment. But in the era of quiet quitting, her actions seem completely appropriate. She is in an unsafe working environment, and her male managers refuse to acknowledge it. She’s completely right to say no and walk out. Weird to think of Phantom as a workplace drama, but 80% of the first act takes place at work. All that being said, it was wonderful to be back. Phantom is one of the first shows I saw in New York, and I will always have a soft spot for it while still being aware of its flaws. The first thirty minutes up to Music of the Night are really well done: the quiet of the auction scene followed by the pulling back of the curtains and drapes and raising of the chandelier as we go back in time, the grandeur of the Hannibal scene, the introduction of the characters, the travel through the mirror… I do not think the show could be given a better staging than this one, and I am dreading the cut-rate version that will be replacing it. But then the seams start to show: at the end of Music of the Night, the Phantom simply says, “We should go back now before they miss you,” even though they have undoubtedly already missed her since she has disappeared after her debut performance, which the book never addresses. The show never reaches the peak of the first minutes again. But I wonder what the book for Phantom would be like if it were written today; I think it would be very different. |
|
| reply to this message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: Unhookthestars 01:03 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - mikem 10:42 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| I can’t wait to see what Daniel Fish will do in the revival! 😆 | |
| reply to this message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: mikem 08:28 am EDT 04/11/23 | |
| In reply to: re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - Unhookthestars 01:03 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| Sorry, I meant to respond earlier that the idea of a Daniel Fish revival legitimately made me laugh out loud! Maybe the Phantom will be a frat bro in a backwards baseball cap, sidling up to Christine at the bar. . . | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 01:48 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 01:44 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - Unhookthestars 01:03 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| I think he'll add even more to the Little Lotte part of the show, see link, which already seemed to be taking up too much time, as well as adding Nancy and Sluggo for more violence. | |
| Link | Little Lotte (ok, Lotta) |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: NoPeopleLike 12:52 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - mikem 10:42 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| Paul Schaefer has been a cover for many years and is consistently terrible in both roles. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 12:45 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - mikem 10:42 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| I saw Paul Adam Schaefer as the Phantom last January and he wasn’t very exciting. I did have handsome and suave John Riddle as Raoul but I couldn’t hear him all that well because his mic seemed to be turned down. Ben Crawford was out the week I went and I heard he was good but after reading your comment, maybe I didn’t miss anything. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 11:15 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - mikem 10:42 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| PHANTOM has plot holes you could drive a semi through. Laura in LA |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: Ann 02:07 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - showtunetrivia 11:15 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| Or a double-wide gondola | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: bmc 11:54 am EDT 04/09/23 | |
| In reply to: re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - Ann 02:07 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| I saw PHANTOM up in Toronto, with Cris Groenendal(sp?) as the Phantom. He was wonderful. After that Fri eve perf., I went to back to back sat/sun Mats of SHOW BOAT{ the Prince production} | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: Delvino 12:40 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - showtunetrivia 11:15 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| Agreed. We used to have whole threads devoted to the absence of narrative logic in the through-line, which, among other things, presumes an audience's full acceptance of -- and investment in -- the central players as a romantic triangle, even though nothing that unfolds truly supports the contention in understandable emotional terms. When I went back, 20 years after my initial viewing with the first and now legendary Crawford, I thought of it as a series of set pieces, tableaux very vivants, gorgeously staged. If I paused to suspend disbelief in actual plotting, let's just say: I found myself with questions. But no one cares. People adore the show almost independent of its libretto, and find its romantic patina helps forgive all. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: Zelgo 12:26 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - showtunetrivia 11:15 am EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| …starting with the fact that there’s a man supposedly living under the Paris Opera for years with supernatural powers… | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: peter3053 04:28 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - Zelgo 12:26 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| Harold Prince, a stickler for logic of plotting, wisely contained all of the action of Phantom inside the theatrical world (or "workplace", as mentioned above); in that heightened world where feeling often trumps rationality, disbelief could be suspended like, well, like a ghostly chandelier. In the appalling sequel, Love Never Dies (or as I call it "Love Ever Dire"), the creators took the action out into the real world (before going to Coney Island) and every last thread of plausibility was unseamed. Now, having said that Prince was very strict on logic, I should mention, as the exception that proves the rule, the embarrassing breach in the middle of Act One of Sweeney Todd, where, in the original production, Todd and Lovett are on Tuesday ("Who said the week is out yet? It's only Tuesday.") and Anthony and Johanna are somehow simultaneously on Friday ("Tis Friday virtually Sunday..."). Todd kills Pirelli on Tuesday, Toby is below on Tuesday, the Judge and Beadle arrive from Friday and...... oh well, at least they fixed it by the tour ("Who said the week is out yet? It's only Friday!!" says Lovett in the taped version.) |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 09:44 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
| In reply to: re: A re-visit to Phantom of the Opera: now that it's 2023, can Christine choose None of the Above? (spoilers, long) - peter3053 04:28 pm EDT 04/07/23 | |
|
|
|
| I would say there at least two pretty major implausibilities in the plot of Sweeney Todd, but Sondheim said that the implausibilities are why he started the piece with the line "Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd." It's a tale, not meant to be taken literally. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.063574 seconds.