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| NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 01:19 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| The magazine’s Ethicist columnist on how to cast an upcoming rendition of “Fiddler on the Roof.” | |
| Link | Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right? |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: den 07:54 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
| In reply to: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - MockingbirdGirl 01:19 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| I would love to see a production of Fiddler with someone like Norm Lewis playing Tevye. I think he’d be great. There is something universal about Tevye, he needn’t necessarily be played by someone who is Jewish. Though I was initially jarred by the casting, I’m excited that David Harewood, a Black actor, is cast as William F Buckley in The Best of Enemies (coming to a cinema near you, maybe, next weekend). Because Buckley, like Tevye, represents a type. The actor’s appearance is irrelevant. But in a play like A Raisin in the Sun, the actors playing Walter Lee Younger and his family kind of have to be Black … or at least played by members of an underrepresented, discriminated-against group. (Could Raisin work with an Hispanic cast or an Asian cast? I wonder.) I don’t know that a production of Raisin cast with white actors would make much sense. Most plays, I think, including Fiddler, can accommodate “diverse” non-traditional casting, and even benefit from it, but not all. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 12:36 am EDT 05/19/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - den 07:54 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| Many years ago, I saw a photo from a Japanese production of ''Fiddler on the Roof,'' featuring Japanese actors as Tevye, etc. The Japanese reportedly love ''Fiddler'' and find its story of tradition and generational struggles so universal and ''Japanese.'' |
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| Link | Japanese 'Fiddler on the Roof': 'Tradition' |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: sf 04:39 pm EDT 05/19/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - WaymanWong 12:36 am EDT 05/19/23 | |
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| The revival a few years ago at the Everyman in Liverpool had a multicultural cast; the production's underlying idea was that somewhere in the world, at any given time, people are being forced by some regime or other to leave their homes to seek safety elsewhere. The final scene in that production was simply but brilliantly staged; as Tevye and his family started to push the cart out of Anatevka, the rest of the cast came on and started walking behind them - dressed in contemporary clothing and carrying improvised luggage, like the refugees we've all seen in the news over the last few years making their way across Europe after fleeing Syria/Libya/Afghanistan/South Sudan. There was a moment when you could feel the penny drop among the audience, and it was by some distance the most moving Fiddler I've seen. And the show always moves me. That production's Golde, incidentally - Melanie La Barrie - is currently appearing on Broadway. She was *very* good, but then she always is. |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:12 pm EDT 05/19/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - WaymanWong 12:36 am EDT 05/19/23 | |
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| Yes, it is an extremely popular show in Japan. I have a friend who lives in Japan and he's done multiple productions of it. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:50 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - den 07:54 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| Are we getting too far afield when we follow the pivot to discrimination/under-representation? The original question is about diversity, an institutional question in the theatre whereas the "pivot" takes us to societal questions. For example, there is no question that Jewish people are discriminated against and under-represented. But in terms of diversity in the theatre, can we say this? I am asking questions here that may (or may not) be worth discussing in this thread. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 06:37 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - den 07:54 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| Carol Channing would’ve been a good Tevye. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: showtunesoprano 01:38 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - den 07:54 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| Honest question: Do you think an all-Jewish production of Raisin in the Sun could work? It satisfies your criteria for its casting to be with "members of an underrepresented, discriminated-against group." But I don't know? | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: den 07:40 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - showtunesoprano 01:38 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
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| Excellent question! I don’t know either. Perhaps as a period piece when Jews were more significantly underrepresented than they are today? (Which is not to say that Jews are no longer discriminated against.) Perhaps some context would be required to make it work? | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 07:46 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:43 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - den 07:40 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
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| Linking article on hate crimes against Jews. | |
| Link | Hate crimes |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: Ncassidine 01:42 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
| In reply to: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - MockingbirdGirl 01:19 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| It's disingenuous at best to mention the people Bock and Harnick originally discussed casting with, 60 years ago. Times change. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: TheHarveyBoy 01:23 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
| In reply to: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - MockingbirdGirl 01:19 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| How rude of Kwame to say that FIDDLER "has been done to death" and then suggest that the characters can be cast transracially. He would have a heart attach if someone suggesting casting whites and asians in PORGY & BESS. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: Zelgo 02:45 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - TheHarveyBoy 01:23 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| Why not have Whites and Asians in Porgy & Bess, The Wiz, and Ma Rainey's? We will live a multi-cultural society and theatre should reflect where we are today. Does anyone expect Porgy and Bess produced in China to old have Black actors? |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: showtunesoprano 01:40 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - Zelgo 02:45 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| "Does anyone expect Porgy and Bess produced in China to old have Black actors?" As many people know, Gershwin's estate requires it to be performed by Black actors and I know a great many American Black opera singers who regularly travel to Germany to perform Porgy there. Unless it was unlicensed, or somehow exempted, I would think a production in China would have to do the same. |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 04:04 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 04:03 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - showtunesoprano 01:40 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
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| Linking an Anthony Tommasini piece on whether Porgy and Bess should be restricted to black artists, with interesting quotes from Simon Estes, who felt it should not be so limited. | |
| Link | Porgy and Bess |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: Billhaven 03:47 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - Zelgo 02:45 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| Forgive me for not feeling sorry for all the white actors denied access to perform in Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom. Theses posts usually make a pitch for the white Raisin in the Sun, too. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:43 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - TheHarveyBoy 01:23 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| First of all, the reference to "done to death" arises from the letter he received. Secondly, one casting about the word "rude" might want to consider what is going on with the use of the author's first name as if either you know him (which I doubt) or you consider yourself superior to him in some way (no comment). Finally, the reflexive turning the act under discussion on its head present additional issues that I don't think we need to address right now. Let's take a step back. If we have lots of shows in which the absence of verisimilitude does not raise issues (and this is 99%+ of all shows), perhaps it would be good to examine, particularly in the U.S., with its race-obsessed legacy that just won't go away, if the problem is casting a black man as Tevye or some defect that prevents us from toning down our race lens. I saw a sold production of My Fair Lady not too long ago, at a high school in Westchester. Higgins was played by a 16 year old boy. No one seemed to notice. |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 06:43 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - ryhog 01:43 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| No one noticed he was a 16 year old boy?? You did obviously. I would think everyone did. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:13 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - KingSpeed 06:43 pm EDT 05/18/23 | |
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| Notice, yes, but then move on. The theatre requires, first and foremost, suspension of belief. You notice you are watching a play set in Russia in the middle of Manhattan and people are speaking English. You notice Leo Frank is singing; he didn't. And then you move on. My point is that, especially in the US, a lot of people who can move on from most everything else have a problem moving on from race. That's what this is about. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 01:30 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - TheHarveyBoy 01:23 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| The comments on the article are also worth reading for a fuller range of opinions. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: BillEadie 05:56 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - MockingbirdGirl 01:30 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| Thanks for steering me to the comments in the NYT. The discussion there was quite interesting. Bill, in San Diego |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: huskyital 11:30 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - BillEadie 05:56 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| For true diversity, we would need to follow the racial make up of the country. Blacks make up 12% of the population and Hispanics make up 18%. In 2023 in New York on Broadway and off Broadway. This is not the case. There should be diversity on the stage, as there is in the country, but the Director and producer should cast the best person for the part. The paying audience deserves the best.. | |
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| re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:39 am EDT 05/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT's Ethicist column: "Our Theater is Fighting About Diversity. Who’s Right?" - huskyital 11:30 pm EDT 05/17/23 | |
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| The subject here, as I understand it, is color-blind casting. The basic premise of color-blind casting is that it is not based on formulas or percentages but on who is "best." The challenge this prompts is that "best" is inherently subjective. In turn, this asks what we know about the director and producer to whom you are giving this power. Are they white? Are they white supremacists? Does their orientation bend toward a Western European sensibility? Where is the paying audience and how do they define best. Does a lily white audience in Mississippi "deserve" a white cast because they think white is best? I could of course let that play out with any race in the driver's seat. However we slice and dice it, this is not a question that admits of simplistic answers. |
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