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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: kidmanboy 06:16 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
| In reply to: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - MockingbirdGirl 05:07 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
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| The show had never been performed with live musicians over the past 10 years. I’m shocked that this is coming as a surprise to anyone. While those instruments were played by someone, the sound on the recording and in the theater is heavily manipulated. Fatboy slim, co-composer of the show, is a dj. I don’t think this is just as easy as replacing the music that has been created with live instruments. Also, someone mentions above that they should just pay the 19 musicians. Would that, indeed, be acceptable to the union? I didn’t get the impression that was that easy either. |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: Ncassidine 06:59 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - kidmanboy 06:16 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
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| "I’m shocked that this is coming as a surprise to anyone." Nobody said they were shocked. They have said that the production needs to follow the rules. |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: Hair 11:32 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - Ncassidine 06:59 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
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| Yes because in theater and art the most important thing is NOT artistic expression or the vision of the artist, it's following the rules That's what art is all about -- YOU MUST FOLLOW RULES RULES RULES |
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| Do you believe the production should pay actors the Equity minimum? | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 11:36 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 11:36 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - Hair 11:32 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
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| Or are those also union-negotiated rules that can be dispensed with? Want to produce "art" without Broadway's restrictions? Find another venue. There are theaters aplenty. |
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| re: Do you believe the production should pay actors the Equity minimum? | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 05:10 pm EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: Do you believe the production should pay actors the Equity minimum? - MockingbirdGirl 11:36 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
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| Ha...well actually the city was scoured, initially by the Public and other producers, back closer to the original run and they didn't feel at all like their options were aplenty. I think Circle in the Square came up a lot as it might have ended up similar to the scale at the Public, but something about the footprint of the venue didn't work or makse sense. A poster in some thread mentioned Sleep No More and I had never thought about this being a standalone experience like that, but it's an interesting idea. I think they really want the Broadway machine. And as you and others note, that comes with rules and contracts. | |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:21 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - kidmanboy 06:16 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
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| AFAIK, that would be OK with the union. | |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: selmerboy 11:17 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - AlanScott 06:21 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
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| That is most definitely not what the union wants. My guess is that the Union would accept a special situations agreement, and that they would rather put 8-10 musicians in playing jobs than have 19 union members as walkers. This is about jobs on this show, yes, but it’s also about the future of and - believe it or not - the integrity of the Broadway Musical. Seriously. | |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Last Edit: SCH 09:04 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
| Posted by: SCH 09:01 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - selmerboy 11:17 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
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| When you speak of the integrity of the Broadway musical, shouldn't you also be speaking of artistic integrity? As those who have seen other iterations of this show can attest, there are very valid artistic reasons for using prerecorded tracks for this particular show. The entire conceit of the show is predicated on it, and the sound and style of the tracks (which are essential to the conceit of the show) cannot be reproduced with live music. | |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: selmerboy 05:07 pm EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - SCH 09:01 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
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| Of course the sound can be reproduced by live musicians. It's not electronic music. It was recorded by real musicians playing real instruments. And, as I've said before, all you have to do is step into Six, Hamilton, And Juliet, or any number of other shows to see that virtually any style of music can be played live. The "artistic integrity" argument from the producers is a dodge. | |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 06:30 pm EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - selmerboy 05:07 pm EDT 05/31/23 | |
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| There's the rub: You manifestly do not understand the first thing about record producing and yet you pretend you do. (And you are not alone.) The "sound" of a recording cannot be reproduced by live musicians because it is impossible to proceed live in the manner that a record is recorded, edited, and produced in a studio. And when you say otherwise, it's clear you just don't understand. It's like saying that you saw Rigoletto last night and the string parts were played by kazoos but it "of course" was the opera. It is also like saying that you saw the film of West Side Story and it was just the same as seeing it on stage. It has NOTHING to do with the genre of music; it is about the way the sound is delivered to the audience's ears. As I have said before, this topic is a tangent to the issue that prompted this increasingly weird thread, but the bottom line is that if someone discerns what karaoke is, having it played by live musicians in a theatre is a fraud. |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 07:39 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - AlanScott 06:21 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
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| They would be ok with it but that misses the point. The union agreed to a procedure for reducing the number below the minimum. It is a procedure that has been used a number of times. That procedure, of which the producer and GM were well aware, is ordinarily put in motion as soon as the theatre is secured, and involves a committee (made up of both sides plus quite esteemed neutrals) that is tasked to determine an appropriate number of musicians in the circumstances. Here, that procedure was NOT initiated on a timely basis for reasons that are not clear but appear to be somewhat delusional on the production's part. Based on what is being reported, the process is clearly not going to be completed in time. If not, will 802 picket? (I would think yes.) Will anyone cross the picket line? (I would think no.) If that's the case then, considering what they have spent already, I suspect they will be forced to cough up the contract minimum, which they undoubtedly cannot afford. Another unnecessary mess. | |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:50 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - ryhog 07:39 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
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| At this point, I wouldn’t see the show at all. Even if a deal is stuck, these producers knew what they were doing and clearly thought they would get away with it. It’s disgusting, a clear intention to not pay artists, and is in line with the horrendous behavior we’re seeing in Hollywood right now. | |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: Hair 11:34 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - Singapore/Fling 12:50 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
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| HOW DARE THESE ARTISTS NOT WANT TO CREATE ART THAT FOLLOWS YOUR DIRECTIVES INSTEAD OF THEIR OWN??? | |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:04 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - Singapore/Fling 12:50 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
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| You can of course make your own decisions but your narrative does not comport with the one that has now been made public by the parties. | |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:06 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - ryhog 01:04 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
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| You’re right - I trusted the poster who said that the Times article didn’t have anything new in it, and so missed that Luft has been talking with the union since February. Still, they are losing the PR game here. Get ahead of the story, people. |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:46 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - Singapore/Fling 10:06 am EDT 05/31/23 | |
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| Well that explains the disconnect. And yes, this is not being handled well. And I think this is another area where having unattuned people in charge of marketing and publicity results in the absence of a clear message. | |
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| re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 08:14 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 08:11 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
| In reply to: re: I've just looked at the credits for the 2016 cast recording... - ryhog 07:39 pm EDT 05/30/23 | |
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| Just answering a question in the post to which I responded. | |
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