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| re: What word is that? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 04:38 pm EDT 07/18/23 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:35 pm EDT 07/18/23 | |
| In reply to: What word is that? - portenopete 03:04 pm EDT 07/18/23 | |
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| Not sure if you are saying that "fat" is an offensive word? If you are, I will have to disagree with you. As someone who has been fat all his adult life I can tell you I infinitely prefer the straight-ahead descriptor "fat" over euphemisms like "big", "big-boned" and "husky". As with virtually any word, it can be weaponized by someone's attitude and intent... Not long ago, a student in one of my classes sang "Vanilla Ice Cream," and when she got to the lyric "and never guessing that you were fat" sang "and never guessing that you were short" instead. After she sang, I advised - "I've been short all my life - something I have no control over. I've also been fat all my life, which of course I do have some control over but haven't always done that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not offended by either word, but the obvious lyric change does make me uncomfortable, because I know you're trying so hard to avoid saying 'fat.' I think I'd prefer Harnick's lyric." Notably, she didn't change "bald." Which of course could be as offensive as "fat." Interesting. :-) |
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| re: What word is that? | |
| Posted by: showtunesoprano 10:03 am EDT 07/19/23 | |
| In reply to: re: What word is that? - Chromolume 04:35 pm EDT 07/18/23 | |
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| Regarding all of these words, they can be used as descriptors of facts and they can also be used as insults. Are they facts about appearance that doesn't conform to society's notion of "beauty?" Yes. But they are facts (facts known to the people to whom they apply, btw) and stated as such should not have the power to offend. The body-positivity/fat-positivity movement is attempting just that. We are fat, we know we are fat, "fat" is the most appropriate way to describe our body-type. It is not an insult, it is not intended to offend, it is just a fact. | |
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| re: What word is that? | |
| Posted by: Michael_212 10:06 am EDT 07/19/23 | |
| In reply to: re: What word is that? - showtunesoprano 10:03 am EDT 07/19/23 | |
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| You may be fat. I am overweight. That's what I'm comfortable with. | |
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| re: What word is that? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 02:02 pm EDT 07/19/23 | |
| In reply to: re: What word is that? - Michael_212 10:06 am EDT 07/19/23 | |
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| I'm fine with either word. Just that "overweight" wouldn't scan right at that point in the song. :-) (Though of course Amalia does also use that word earlier in the show, in dialogue.) | |
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| re: What word is that? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 05:03 pm EDT 07/18/23 | |
| In reply to: re: What word is that? - Chromolume 04:35 pm EDT 07/18/23 | |
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| Yes, I cringe as well when "fat" is used as a punchline. It hurts more than if it's used as a direct insult. But I accept it in old material the way I accept Julie Jordan's dismissal of domestic abuse or Henry Higgins' misogyny. I wouldn't dismiss them or Amalia out of hand for possessing common characteristics and attitudes of their age. In the film The Shop Around the Corner there's a more nuanced version of that seed that Georg plants in Amalia's mind. You can see Margaret Sullivan try so hard NOT to let her aesthetic judgement on "Dear Friend" dominate her thinking. "Old" is a whole other kettle of fish..... |
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